#158. Calling someone just "Pastor" instead of their first name.
Apr 17th by JonA friend of mine is in the habit of calling his wife, “mother.” He will say things like, “Well I think mother and I need to get home and relieve the babysitter.” I find that a little creepy, despite the fact that she is the mother of his kids. And for years I vowed that I would never do that. I didn’t swear on a stone or thrust a sword deep into the cold, dark earth, but I really tried not to say it. But when your four-year old says that it’s completely fine that she wear brightly striped leg warmers, a black plaid dress and a polka dotted ski hat to school, you can’t help but say, “Did mom say that was cool?” I mean, I can’t ask, “Did Jenny say that was cool?” We’re just not that postmodern of a family. But even as I break that vow, I want to swear a new one, right here, right now:
I will never refer to my pastor as simply “pastor.”
Do you know anyone that does this? Instead of saying, “Andy Stanley” or “Pastor Louie,” they just say pastor. Instead of using their name they say sentences like, “Well pastor said it wasn’t a good thing to do that at work, so I’m not going to.” Or, “Pastor and his wife are coming over for dinner tonight.”
Something about that just makes me feel a little “banjo.” (I am of course using banjo as a synonym for backwoods, which I can do right now because I don’t have a very large banjo population reading this site. When I eventually do however, I will use “moonshine jug” instead of “banjo.” Just a heads up.)
The bigger thing is that we don’t do that in any other relationships in our lives. We recently had some people paint our house, because I have the tender un-callused hands of a writer, and my wife didn’t say, “I saw painter today and he said they should be finished tomorrow.” When you go to the doctor you don’t say, “Doctor gave me medicine so I need to go to the drug store.” Or “I talked with accountant and she said my taxes are done.” It’s a very uniquely church thing to do, but I think we should all vow to stop it. Today, actually.
Comments
At our campus ministry, our pastors introduce themselves as “Pastor [Whoever]“. I’m not sure whether we’re all lazy, or just less formal, or have great affection for our pastors, but we pretty much call them “P. [Whoever]“…P. Matt, P. Dave…
(Makes it easier for them to sneakily introduce themselves without the “Pastor” in front to our non-Christian friends, too.)
Chevette, I totally agree. I’ve never called my pastor “pastor,” even though lots of people in my church do. I know him really well – and did even before he was my pastor – so it’s just weird. Sometimes he’s “Pastor Alan” but not to his face – only if I’m mentioning him in conversation with someone else who calls him that. But I never understood that either. Pastoring is just one of a number of important spiritual gifts. It’s worthy of honor, but a constant title? I don’t know. Plus I feel like it makes people think of pastors as a sort of different breed. Like, there are pastors and there are laypeople, each with their appropriate degrees of spiritual-ness. I thought we were all just followers of Christ…
Case in point: My pastor once was introducing me to a new guy my age who had just moved to the area to go to seminary. (He might’ve been playing match-maker too, not sure, haha.) It went something like this: “Christina, this is so-and-so, he just moved here from wherever because God called him into ministry.” (introducing me to so-and-so) “Christina got called into the ministry a long time ago.” This was a shock to me – no intention of being a she-pastor or going to seminary or any of that. I asked him later what he meant, and he said, “When you got saved I knew that you were going to be a minister in whatever you did. Your whole life was going to be ministry, whether in the traditional sense or not.” Me: “Isn’t that what all Christians are supposed to be?” Him: “Yes, but unfortunately a lot don’t realize that.”
Good golly am I laughing and enjoying this post! I’ve actually decided to *not* attend a church because the pastor insisted on being called “Pastor”. I just kept thinking he needed to get over himself, just a bit…either that or I might have needed to get a bit more “banjo”.
Oh, and yeah, I made the same promise to myself re: not calling my husband “dad” – of course that was before the little minah bird was born.
Great stuff.
I have to add, however, that there is one other occupation . . . COACH! Even the other coaches do it.
Head Coach: Hey, Coach, can I talk to you?
Assistant: Sure, Coach. (To third) Coach can you help this kid, Coach wants to talk to me.
Third Coach: No problem Coach, but tell Coach I need to see him when you’re finished.
HEY! Banjos are cool!
As a pastor, I cringe every time someone calls me “Pastor Adam” or “Pastor”. My name is Adam, and that’s fine with me. I’m on this journey with you, not lording authority over you. I started with the “Actuary Rich” and “Accountant Bob” thing, and that seems to work sometimes. If you really want to show endearment, you can just call me Adam and we can be friends
I think the only exceptions to the title rule are sports (where it’s appropriate to just say, “Coach” instead of their name) and when talking to the President or Pope. The only time the term, “Pastor” could be used instead of the person’s name would be by the pastor’s wife in the bedroom. Because hey, you know, maybe that’s your deal. Freak.
Reading that list bit about “Painter” and “Doctor” made me think of the smurfs. Then I got the image of calling my pastor “Papa Thomas.”
hmmmm…Iw as just talking to a few people in church about this. Sometimes when people call me “Pastor” it takes me a few times to realize that they’re talking to me. I can deal with “Pastor John” if people feel that it is just the respectful thing to do but seriously, I prefer to be called “John” That is, in fact, my name. Technically, Pastor is a vocation not a title. The legal title is Actually “Reverend” which I hate to the very core of my being. Titles like Doctor and professor and dean are generally either preceded with a “the” in conversation or followed by a proper name to indicate which doctor or professor or dean is being talked to/about. “Pastor” is the only vocation/title that experiences the phenominon of it actually replacing our name. It’s a little dehumanizing. STOP OBJECTIFYING VOCATIONAL MINISTERS!
John Hall
Fresno, CA
I’m a little late to this conversation , but I found it as a result of doing a search about this very topic. I feel that our church is a little too casual in the way our Pastor is addressed. Frankly, I’m a little surprised (and, put off) by some of the comments from Pastor’s and Reverend’s in this chat.
We regularly refer to those in authority by their vocation or education. Judge, Your Honor, Doctor, Officer, Deputy, and Chef. Yes, that’s right, Chef. Would you appear in court and address the Judge by his first name? It is an acknowledgement of their authority. And, “Pastor” should be used if you acknowledge that person as your spiritual leader or mentor. I know many Reverends who are Pastors. But, I only refer to one as “Pastor.” In doing so,I acknowledge who that person is in my life. It is certainly a much higher calling than Judge or Doctor or (most certainly) Chef.
Likewise, the title comes with an expected level of responsibility. I do not consider my Pastor as one who “Lords over me.” But, he is my teacher or shepard. If I don’t think of him in that way, then I should go somewhere else.
We’ve become too casual and too familiar.
I once went to my Pastor for counseling. He gave me some advice and asked me if I agreed with it. I told him, “Yes, it’s why I call you ‘Pastor’, otherwise, you’re just ‘Scott.’”
at my old church, the pastor’s wife was one of our sunday school teachers. she always referred to her husband as “pastor” and i always thought it was really weird. like during prayer requests, she’d say “well, pastor’s leaving for india tomorrow, so let’s pray that he has a good flight.” or, “well i spoke to pastor today and he said the trip is going well but we need to pray for ____.” why can’t she just say “my husband” or “tommy” ?
You know, the funny thing is that I picked up this habit in the Air Force. I became really good friends with one of my chaplains, Chaplain Herb Shao, but no matter how close he was to a brother or father figure for me, he was still an officer, and I was still enlisted, and I always, always, always had to call him Chaplain. I called him Herb one time while a few of us on the worship team for our chapel service were meeting, and it got really quiet and uneasy all of a sudden. After the meeting, the drummer, who was a Staff Sergeant, pulled me aside and told me never to do that again.
It’s been three years since I left the Air Force, but now I call my senior pastor Pastor or Pastor Lorne all the time for just that reason.
I knew Chaplain Shao from my internship in Anchorage, where I served at a Lutheran church. If there was ever a guy I think was deserving of being honored with a title I think it's him. And I say this because I know how much he genuinely cares about the men and women in his care. I always felt really privileged as a lowly intern serving a civil-church to receive his help because of his integrity. As a pastor I try to live up to the title when my members refer to me simply as "Pastor." I call my mother "mom" not because I want to dishonor her, but because I'm honoring the job she does as a mother, same with my job. It's with great humbleness that I live with this title and bare the "name."
what if your pastor wishes to be referred to as pastor. and he also happens to sign your paycheck?
What you need to do is become an Anglican! Then you can call all your priests “Father”, and be done with it!
Perhaps I’m a bit too banjoish, but we tend to call our pastors, Preacher. And that’s all. One of my best friend’s is a pgk (pastor’s grandkid) and even she calls him Preacher. shrug.
I get a lot more perturbed at calling everyone “brother” or “sister.” What if they’re not? What if they’re wolves in sheep’s clothing?
I've always called my pastor just that. I have always thought of it as a sign of respect. You don't call the president Barrock, you call him Mr. President… I think my pastor deserves that much respect
When I was in a previous church youth group (I was about 17/18 at the time) I was actually told off by one of the Elders for calling the pastor "John" rather than "Pastor John" because I'd seen one of the older members of the congregation do it!
It's funny now, but was heartbreaking at the time and one of the reasons I left that church!
Ok, I just learned about this blog (love it!), so I'm very late joining these comments, and no one may read this, but here goes …
Respectfully, I think that some commenters have missed the point. The objection isn't about using "Pastor" or "Pastor Bill" when talking to the pastor; it is when someone uses "Pastor" in place of a name when referring to the pastor, in the 3rd person.
When speaking to someone, it is not uncommon to refer to them by their title, such as Doctor or Pastor. But when speaking about them, as a third party, common English usage is to put an article ("the" or "a") or pronoun ("my", "our", "your", etc.) in front of the title.
So "The pastor plays the banjo" is fine, as is "My pastor plays the banjo", or even "Pastor Bill plays the banjo". And, if the pastor doesn't mind, so is "Pastor Bill, please play this banjo", or even "Pastor, will you play this banjo?" But "Pastor plays the banjo" is simply not normal English, just like the examples that Prodigal Jon gave about other titles("Doctor gave me medicine …", or "I talked with accountant …").
When people use language in a different way from its standard usage, they are usually intending to convey something unique about the subject. When I hear someone refer to someone as "Pastor" in place of a name, I personally tend to think that they are either trying to convey that they have a special or unique relationship with the pastor that others don't (which sounds prideful), or that they are placing the pastor on some sort of pedestal, above other members of the congregation (which sounds like being a “respecter of persons”, or "fawning man-worship"). Neither of those things is good. I realize that neither one may be their intent, but if you don't intend to convey something outside the norm, then use normal language. Please.
I always thought this only ocurred in very strict, legalist type churches where the pastor is very authoritarian. (As in Hyles in Indiana) Is this common to other type churches as well?
This is one of the things that really weirded me out when I, a heathen Californian, was first in my husband's little home town where his dad is a Pastor. Not only did everyone refer to his dad as "Pastor," but all associated with him lose there names as well! My husband is known in town as "Pastorsson," and his mom is "Pastor's Wife." I would bump into people at the grocery store and have them say, "Oh, you're the girl that's going to marry Pastorsson!" I bet to some I'm now called "Pastor's daughter-in-law" although that hasn't been used to my face yet! I'm still in culture shock, but your blog is helping me!
Hilarious!
I knew a couple teachers in a small Christian school who had their students call them, "Teacher." Those kids never called them "Mrs. So-and-So;" it was always "Teacher."
I know people who work for Focus on the Family, and people who work there refer to Dr. Dobson only as "Doctor" As in, "Did you hear Doctor on the radio today?" or "Doctor made a good point at chapel today." That creeps me out a little.
Ha ha ha! Hilarious! "Moonshine Jug" is funny!
I agree. It's a little like "cook" and "nanny." As in "ask Cook what's for lunch." Or "did Nanny serve tea?"
My dad is my pastor, so when I talk to him privately, I call him "Dad." When I talk to him publicly at church, or about him to a church member, I refer to him as "Pastor." It's a respect thing. Just like we are expected to call Obama "Mr. President" to respect his office, I call my dad "Pastor" out of respect for the office.
But that's just me….
I honestly have no problem whatsoever with just calling your pastor just "Pastor" or "Pastor _______".
It's a form of respect towards that person in authority. I find it extremely important for younger kids, teenagers too, to learn this. It would be really weird if a 4 year old went up to my dad [who is the pastor] and just called him Steve.
Yeah, no thanks.
pastor certainly not a name, but it is a title. One of the things I think we have lost in Christianity today is a respect for titles and positions. I see this when we talk about our pastors, our president, our law enforcement, etc. I by no means think that any pastor, our president, parents, or any other authority is perfect, but I do believe that God has asked us to respect authority structure not on the basis of the person but on the basis of the position. I do think that should be reflected in our speech and how we address those in those positions.