SCL

I'm in the Bible belt and have no issues going into the wine and liquor store every once and a while for a wine night with friends. However, I don't order alcoholic drinks while out in public. I know…sounds silly. But here's my thinking…when I'm with my friends, I know I'm not causing them to stumble by having a glass of wine. But when I'm out in public (since I work at a church) I don't order drinks because I don't want to cause someone to stumble. I know…I know…it sounds like I'm a closet drinker But in truth, it's the balance that I've found that works for me and relationship with Christ. With that being said, I don't really drink that often mainly because of the calories those things pack. Yikes!!!!

I just go buy it. I used to stress. I stopped doing that. It's like sex once your married–it's okay with God, so calm down and forget what anyone else thinks.

I don't get drunk and nine times out of ten I buy it to cook with and it will last months and months before I need to buy more. But I do recall those days of feeling like such a louse when I'd go into the store to purchase my "sin juice". I let that junk go. But it took years to let the guilt go and get to that point…

@Larry and Jennifer Darnell–

Wow. You've either got an unbelievable influence on other people, or an incredible sense of self-importance to assume someone else's salvation hangs on your decision to have rum cake.

And I really like the thinly-veiled judgment of "me personally" or "it's a personal choice" to describe something that another person might do, but you absolutely abstain from. Yikes. Is our goal to act as an agent in making more followers of Christ, or is it just personal piety?

My wife loves the Food Network, and she often wants to try something she sees on that network. Unfortunately, she really wanted to try chicken marsala while I was attending a Baptist college. It was almost her birthday, and I wanted to make it for her, but I knew I was risking being thrown out of school by going to buy the marsala and sherry wines. I boldly went into the grocery store nearest the campus, as it was also nearest our home, and handled business. By handled business, I mean that I literally walked through the whole store looking for students and staff, quickly bee-lined towards the wine, grabbed it, and did the same thing I do when I have to make the dreaded feminine products run: hid it under a big bag of doritos in the back of the cart.

She got her chicken marsala, I got my doritos, and I didn't get kicked out. Now that I work at a "liberal" church, I can walk in and buy it without worry or bum anything I need off of church members and/or staff.

I really have to go with the "moderation" crowd on this one.

There's nothing wrong with drinking; Jesus didn't turn water into Gatorade. It's clear he turned it into wine, as evidenced by the comments made to the host right afterwards.

If you believe you shouldn't drink for whatever reason.. it's immortal, expensive, dangerous, you have an allergy, whatever, then don't. And if you think it will stumble people if they see you drinking, seriously consider that. I think we should be more concerned with that aspect than with being "caught" in a liquor store. If you get asked questions, be honest about why you're making that choice. Don't lie or disguise it; That only makes the whole situation worse.

Back before I was baptized as a Jehovah's Witness (which was also before I left being a JW), two friends who were Witnesses would ask me to buy lottery tickets when the lottery got up in the hundreds of millions… THEY couldn't as it is considered gambling, but I could since I wasn't a Witness yet. That never sat well with me. Same with this issue.

"It is well not to eat flesh or to drink wine or do anything over which your brother stumbles. The faith that you have, have it in accord with yourself in the sight of God. Happy is the man that does not put himself on judgement by what he approves. But if he has doubts, he is already condemned if he eats, because he does not eat out of faith. Indeed, everything that is not out of faith is sin." Romans 14:21-23 (NWT)

Here in the mid-west we like to call the liquor store drive through the "baptist window".

The comments (and how serious some of them are) are almost funnier than the post itself. My personal faves are the ones about how you can never justify buying Playboy sheets as well as the one reminding us that it is never appropriate to have a bum buy your hooch for you.

I found that last tidbit extremely helpful as general etiquette rules concerning how to behave with bums and winos has been forgotten by the younger generation

Thank you for those great reminders, modern levite and anonymous.

Hilarious Loved the part about showing the cake pan instead of ID

This cracked me up -just the other night, I was at the store buying Kaluah for a dessert and ended up spending about 20 minutes looking for it (they were out), the whole time, nervously looking over my shoulder for people I knew, or even people I didn't know since I'm 9 months pregnant and don't look like I should be out stocking up on booze.
I've been enjoying the blog – can't wait for the book!

Hi-lar-i-ous!!! I remember running into a respected (deservedly so) senior member of my church coming out of a liquor store (as I was headed in), bottle of wine in hand. No excuses necessary. I was relieved and enlightened.

This is a great post. I'd buy the rum (probably feeling awkward, of course ~ it IS the "demon rum") then bake the cake and bring it to the next potluck.

God bless!

@scared of darnells

I don't drink alcohol at all. I have no problem saying that to someone's face, from the pulpit, or from my own google account that leads you directly back to who I really am. Do you know why I don't drink? It's a personal choice. I don't care if you drink, and I'll defend one's right to drink within Biblical guidelines, but I won't attack someone who's so burdened for the lost and those that they have direct influence over for having a different conviction.

I really doubt being an anonymous clown qualifies as being an agent for making more followers of Christ, and taking a different position than tradition does not get you off the hook for your piety. Your comment oozes modern piety.

Sorry, I wouldn't typically rant here, but seriously? Attacking someone anonymously is like selling a dead bird to Petey the blind kid. I don't know either of the Darnells, but someone needed to defend them. And I'm just tired and cranky enough to be the one to do it.

I'm a deacon at a Southern Baptist church. Personally, I don't have a problem with "social drinking," but my church does. However, the charter specifically says to refrain from alcohol as a beverage. Since taking my vow as a deacon, I haven't had a drink (I didn't often before – because I'm cheap). But, my special pork ribs require beer, and I'm not afraid to server them to my Sunday School class, either. That beer has to come from somewhere. The Jack Daniels BBQ sauce is good, too.

Principal Warren…..

where were you when I was in high school?

I was 21 years old. My wife and I were hosted by some friends of ours, and we wanted to get them something nice. We decided a nice bottle of wine. Our first trip to a liquor store.

We got a nice bottle, walked to the counter, and the clerk rang us up and handed me the receipt. "Don't you want to see my license?" I replied, thinking "It's the law!!"

"Underage people don't buy nice bottles of wine. They buy cases of Keystone Light and bottles of Wild Turkey."

"Ah," I said, and left the store a wiser man.

wv: incirel – Do you have anxiety related to doing something that is not against the law, or even God's law, but still. Try Incirel. Side effects include listening to secular music and watching 'R' rated movies without guilt.

Pat C,

"I found that last tidbit extremely helpful as general etiquette rules concerning how to behave with bums and winos has been forgotten by the younger generation." [SNORT]

Let's see… So much of this is cultural. The stumbling issue is only an issue in a culture where it WOULD make someone else stumble.

Bible Belt? Check.

But you take the stumbling issue away, and the decision becomes so much more simple.

Our English friends thought it was hilarious when my husband debated the ethics of ordering a pint while there. (He's a church board member and thus chooses not to drink. We decided that crossing the pond offers special dispensation.)

@ Crystal G

This is a benefit to being Catholic, but some of us are also Christians. And not just Christian in the "I'm not Jewish so I must be Christian" sense.

In any case, I get to drink, but we don't get drunk. I once was working in SC for an extended time and could only find beer and wine in the grocery store, but really needed to get rum. My coworkers were absolutely shocked when I had to ask where to find a liquor store. In SC they just have red dots on the building and I had no idea that the red dot stores were for the hard core drinkers.
oh well…

We celebrated my daughters 4th Birthday this weekend and I had several sodas and juices on the counter. Needless to say the basement refrigerator was wiped out of beer and Mike's Hard Lemonade when all was said and done. 100 percent of our guests attend church, 4 different ones to be exact.

I don't know if it is regional or denomination driven, but it just is a non issue for us. So let me know how much rum you need and I will hook you up.

yet another awkward alcohol story…

now, i'm not against enjoying a stiff drink here or there with family or friends…in moderation of course.

But this story takes place all of two months after i was hired as the youth pastor to my current church. my family was visiting for the new year's celebration and as such we needed some champagne. so we went to the liquor store to buy some…my dad and brother were getting other beverages also, so i was stuck looking like i was double fisting champagne. AND, just when i was getting in line (it was a long long line…it WAS new year's eve) no other than the head of the Deacons gets in line right behind me. i think we both had the same reaction to each other, "HOLY CRAP!!! I CAN'T BELIEVE HE'S HERE!!! NOW I LOOK LIKE AND ALCOHOLIC!!!" But then we both had the same response to that initial shock, "but HE's here too…" it DID help that he had two and a half handles of Bacardi 151, and i only had two bottles of champagne. And God Bless him he led with this in the conversation, "Have you ever thought about collecting pop tabs for the Ronald McDonald house? I think it'd be a good opportunity for the youth to go and volunteer at one of those sometime…" Tension…erased!

WV: oksen – A scandinavian breed of oxen used primarily to pull the Glogg Barrel Sleigh to the nearest fjord to warm the fisherman.

Honestly? This post rubs me the wrong way. What you're talking about here has nothing to do with Jesus or living for Him and through Him. This has to do with making sure that you APPEAR a certain way in front of others to impress them with your 'religiousness'. Wow, how wonderful. Fact is, if you want to drink, drink. If you don't, don't. And if you're at someone else's house that you know would be offended, don't drink. Same goes if you're in a restaurant with someone that would be offended: don't do it. But quite frankly, within your own home, or with your own family and friends out together, who cares? If someone gets bent out of shape over that, THEY are bent. There is nowhere in the Bible that says drinking hard liquor is wrong. There is no 'scale' measuring coolers, beer, wine, spirits, etc as being more or less bad than any others. They just need to be treated with respect and consumed in moderation.
That's that.

Yes, I am Catholic. I was taught getting drunk is bad, but having a glass of (wine, beer, whiskey, brandy, etc) is not.

One of my favorite nun jokes. (I consider myself a conservative Catholic, but c'mon, this nun joke IS funny…and it was told to me by a nun. Mother Superior no less….)

Two nuns were shopping and happened to be passing the liquor store.
One asks the other if she would like a beer.
The other nun answered that would be good, but that she would be queasy about purchasing it.
The first nun said that she would handle it and picked up a six pack and took it to the cashier.
The cashier had a surprised look and the first nun said, "The beer is used for washing our hair."
The cashier, without blinking an eye, reached under the counter and put a package of pretzels in the bag with the beer, saying. . ."Here, don't forget the curlers."

@Jewda, thanks for the impassioned defense of my position. I appreciate it. By the way, this is Larry Darnell…my wife seldom posts to these types of things.

Not drinking alcohol is a personal choice for me. Always felt that if I started I could not stop. As a parent, I want to model the best behavior I can for my kids. Am I perfect…no way. Do I claim to be holier-than-thou…no. Your choice is your choice.

I was simply stating my reason for my personal choice. Mine is not based in fear of what other people may think. I am seriously not out to please those other people.

I am concerned about what effect my calling myself a Christian and then acting what is perceived to be unchristian-like may have on others who need Jesus. This is but one area. I have a long way to go but I teach youth every week and you better believe they pay attention to what you do and how you do it.

My comments were focused on how I try and deal with this subject.

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

UH OH…someone pushed the hot-button!

Is this serious? You're serious? I think maybe this is a joke. Why can I not buy the rum? I mean, why is it a problem if I want to DRINK the rum? I just wonder. Because it's just as possible to get looped from wine as it is rum. I just think it's incredibly silly that I would feel the need to justify any purchase to some random person from church. If you don't know that I enjoy a drink on occasion, you're not close enough to me to call me out on anything.

I agree with the "become Episcopalian."

I work in an Episcopal church, and on the last ladies' group trip I went on, we stopped in Lynchburg to pose with the Jack Daniel's sign.

Also, I'm pretty sure there's a sixer or so in the church kitchen AS I TYPE.

Not a church story per se, but we are known Christians in my children's public school. Earlier this year my six year old was helping me pack her lunch. Her lunchkit was dirty so I instructed her to get a plastic bag, put the lunch inside and put it in her backpack.

Later that day I was unpacking her bag after school and pulled out a big white bag with LIQUOR DEPOT emblazoned accross the front. I groaned a little but then I just had to laugh.

Heck, maybe I'm just strange but I'll happily walk into a liquor store and buy alcohol.
I love a good scotch, have a particular love of Balvenie 12 year old double wood in fact, and I buy a bottle of it probably once a quarter as a treat. Unless I let relatives at it, that bottle will last me the entire quarter too.

As far as I've seen in the bible the only admonishment is to not get drunk, nothing about not drinking alcohol.

Wait, were you there watching as my wife and I bought rum for our cake? I've never been so nervous in my life. That's why we drove to a liquor store in the middle of no where. It's the kind of store where %80 of the customers are too drunk to remember they saw you.

Glad that's behind us.

@Alex Green.

Whoa there. I think Jon was just using sarcasm and humor to highlight the dilemma (whether real or imagined) some Christians have if they need to buy alcohol. If you want to drink in moderation, go with it. But people like me who drink occasionally BUT only around those I know I won't cause to stumble. I don't drink in public. Why? Cause I care so much what other people think? Um…no. But because (as Paul says) they may be weaker in the faith and may just not have reached that level of freedom yet. So, in order to not get in the way of where they are at, I abstain. Does this limit my freedom? A little. But I'll get over it because I know that my decision may have prevented someone from taking up an offense. I'll use something my pastor says and apply it. It's giving up something I love for something I love even more…people.

Reminds me of an old joke: Do you know the difference between a Presbyterian and a Baptist? The Presbyterian will say "Hi" when he sees you in the liquor store.

Having grown up in the South, this post was hilarious! My parents had the "secret fridge" in the garage where they kept their "adult beverages" out-of-sight of visiting elders.

I am glad I now go to a church where we always run into a couple of members at the local Mexican food place that has the best margaritas … and that's why we're all there!

pregame for church???

I run into my friends from my Christian group at bars and whatnot all the time. I don't think it's that big of a deal. Mixed drinks don't even have to necessarily be that strong.

Jon,
This is a great post.
I especially loved "She turned the color of the sheets and blurted out, 'We support porn through the purchase of home goods.' Then she hit the girl over the head with a bottle of rum and drowned her sorrows in cake that night."

Classic!

We use beer and wine and liquor to cook, and we also use them to gladden our hearts.

wv: impar
def: Southern for weakening the senses

"Don't eat too much rum cake…it could impar your ability to drive to the Piggly Wiggly."

OK so what I have gathered from this discussion so far is: When the guys from church come over to play Dungeons and Dragons, I shouldn't serve alcohol unless it's in a cake, and served with Gatorade … or should I serve the Kool Aide? Unless of course I'm Catholic and then I need to have my mom buy it? … so many rules …

Too funny! On our way to church they have built a new, and very big "beverage store" that would probably make a 14 yr. old boy say as we drive by "man I would like to go in that place"! My head about snapped off of my shoulders, I turned it so fast and said, "you should avoid all appearances of evil"! It's times like these I just have to hand it off to his dad. LOL Why? Because I find myself sometimes saying stuff like this or using the turn or burn thing just to make a point. HA! JK!

I live in the South and the Baptist church taboo of alcohol can cause some tense dividing lines. Think about this: Jesus himself could not have been a Southern Baptist deacon because he allowed alcohol to "touch his lips"!

My mother-in-law's Sunday school teacher at a small, rural Southern Baptist church, brought a homemade rum cake to her house after my brother-in-law was killed in a car accident. I was surprised on many levels, because not only was the cake baked and delivered by a man, bereavement food sure isn't what it used to be (lots of prepackaged stuff, thoughtful nonetheless)–so the homemade cake made quite an impression. I also wondered where and how he bought the rum, which gave me something else to think about other than grieving. Good call on his part.

We American Christians are so freakin' weird.

Listen, if I need beer or wine or strong drink, I am going to go to a good liquor store because they will have the best selection.

Most of the time I need liquor (baked ham, cake, ice cream), beer (chili, dinner rolls) and wine (dressing, sauce) for cooking. But I like beer. I don't drink it often but it is delicious.

If I think wine, beer and liquor on earth where Creation is broken, just think how perfect it will taste in heaven. Yum!

I don't think it was coincidence that when Martin Luther broke away from the Catholic Church and began the Protestant Reformation, he ran off and married an ex-nun who was a master brewer. That man clearly had his priorities in order: God, wife, family, job and beer.

@Prodigal Jon –

Without going into too much detail, I will give you a bit more insight into the mosaic that is me.

When I graduated from Boot Camp into the Marine Reserves and was starting college, I got my first great job: an employee at a tobacco store. After a few years there, I moved on to a job at a brewery. When I got this second job, my oldest sister (who, incidentally, would blush in a liquor store) said, "So, you worked at a cigar store and learned everything there is to know about cigars. Now, you're getting a job at a brewery and will learn all there is to know about beer. Maybe for your next job, you should work at a Christian bookstore."

So I did.

When I was being interviewed for the position at the Christian bookstore, one of the owners looked over my job history and asked why I would have any interest in working there. I told him what my sister had said and was hired on the spot. The owner liked my answer so much, in fact, that me made me tell it to all of the other employees and the co-owner of the store.

That's not exactly how I got into the "Christian School Biz," but it is a good example of the juxtapositions I enjoy.

Oh, and just so that no one concludes from my story that I think the brewery or tobacconist jobs were in any way sinful, after the Christian bookstore, I actually opened and managed a different cigar store. So there. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. As your conscience allows, of course.

one, I'm not entirely certian why you're embarassed. you should give them the judging look for thinking you a lush. As for baking essentials, most liqour stores carry the "in flight" bottles that are usually just the right amount for baking, I know as I needed one for my chocolate kentucky burbon pecan pie. (which is way yummy btw)

social drinking is not a faux pax. EXCESSIVE social drinking can be, but pitys sake….like one drink with dinner is a bad thing. You think biblical people thought wine was heathenistic? NO, cuz it was safer than drinking water in some cities.

"Behold the rain which descends from heaven upon our vineyards, there it enters the roots of the vines, to be changed into wine, a constant proof that God loves us, and loves to see us happy." – Benjamin Franklin

Wow. Timely post! I went to the liquor store last week to buy vodka for a lavender spray I'm making. As a lifelong Baptist, I felt dirty just walking in there! I didn't run into anyone I know, but I know if I had, there would have been the long ezplanation about buying the vodka for a project, NOT for drinking!

Funny how ingrained those things become.

That reminds me of this tract that I'm working on. What do you think?

Click here to view it

You know, I am at one of those churches where pretty much everyone drinks a bit, one that bible belt peeps would be afraid had fallen into apostasy. Still, I am hesitant when buying such liquors at a wal-mart or supermarket (there are aisles of hard liquor in AZ).

Once I was headed to a party some friends were hosting, and I was either going to bring a 6-pack of Mike's or a soda and chips. I chose the soda and chips, and as I'm walking to the checkout, a mother and daughter say "hey, aren't you the guy that sang at church?" I quickly looked down to make sure the Mike's wasn't there, and then said "Yep!" and had a short conversation.

That conversation would have been interesting with some SoCo in my hand.

Funny! I always purchase the airline size bottles for recipes. I may be losing money, but at least they think I only do a shot or two every month or so.

@ Hucklebuck

I think you're onto something there! when're they going to print? also, if you could work in something about the alcohol that's a little more prominant…maybe a couple crossed out Captain Morgans that appear when you hold it up to the light? or maybe some powerful, unsubstantiated quote like, "76% of people that drink and drive die, 100% of them go to hell for drinking…" just a couple ideas.

@Crystal G.:

I do believe that Catholics are actually the ORIGINAL Christians…

I was born and reared a protestant, but we have brought up our children in a liturgical church. While visiting a protestant church in our new town, they were confused when served grape juice for communion. Their comments afterward were along the lines of, "What the heck was THAT??"

Maybe this blog should be called Stuff Evangelicals Like.

"Then she hit the girl over the head with a bottle of rum and drowned her sorrows in cake that night." Haha. I almost fell out of my chair laughing! If only it were true…

This reminds me of the lady at my church who always sends her husband to the liquor store when she's sick so that he can buy her some Jack Daniels. She says it's to clear her throat, but I have noticed her getting sick a lot more lately…

My solution is that I sent my husband to buy the vodka necessary for homemade vanilla extract and kaluha He *was* an elder at the time.

haha!! SO true. I have no real issues with alcohol (used wisely) but I went to a Christian college where no one was allowed to drink. My family has this epic recipe for beer bread (trust me…it is amazing) but for 4 years there was no way to buy the beer without large doses of awkwardness/possible repercussions. It was sad.