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#630. Awkward opposite sex friendships.

Oct 1st by admin

A few weeks ago I spoke at a conference that required me to fly. Months before the conference, I asked the organizers if I could have a guy drive me to the airport. Not that a girl driving me was a big deal, but my wife and I had discussed it and we both felt better about me avoiding awkward situations like that. Three of my favorite pastors, Andy Stanley, Craig Groeschel and Billy Graham, live by that policy and I felt fine with putting it in my life too.

I know what you’re thinking, “Hey, you’ve got a book coming out, don’t you have an entourage with one really big guy who everyone calls ‘Tiny’ and another guy who can always talk his way out of a jam and possibly a really tall guy who can reach things on shelves that you can’t? Aren’t you rich?” Yes, I mean globally speaking I am rich in that when I went to pick out shoes to wear today it was a multiple choice test. But I don’t have an entourage, which is a request that Zondervan continues to ignore. When I travel it’s just me and my backpack. No luggage, no baggage, just a seemingly bottomless LL Bean backpack which makes me feel a bit like Dora the Explorer.

So without an entourage, I decided to request that a guy drive me to the airport. I just wasn’t comfortable with the idea of spending an hour in LA traffic alone with a girl. That just didn’t seem smart to me and the conference was completely cool with that request. They found a guy, everything was good.

That felt like a no brainer to me. I had a chance to honor a commitment I made to my wife, so I did. And at the conference, one of the female staff made a point of thanking me for making that request, so I felt good that I had not disrespected anyone by asking for a male driver. But what about other less obvious situations? When you get married, you’re suddenly thrown into all these awkward opposite sex friendship moments.

What about having a one on one meeting with a woman? Is it enough to just leave the door open? Or do you have to have three people present at all times? I know churches who use both approaches.

What about a lunch meeting? A married friend recently told me that if he couldn’t go out to lunch with females he couldn’t do his job. Is lunch with a lady a date? What if it’s a business lunch? The CEO of Zondervan is a lady, what if she calls me and says, “Jon, we’d like to give you a 37 book deal and your own Honda Ruckus Scooter for a cross country tour called ‘Ruckus by Ruckus,’ can we go out to lunch to discuss the details?” Do I have to invite someone along with me? What if my wife is not available that day?

And when you get married, at what point do you have to officially retire the silly sentence, “I’ve just always gotten along better with the opposite sex, that’s how I’m wired?”

I don’t know. I don’t have the answer on this one. Just the idea that things get a little awkward when you get married and have to figure out friendships with the opposite sex. But of the two camps, “Jeez you’re such a Puritan, loosen up” and “Better safe than sorry, can a dude drive me to the airport,” I know which one I want to fall into. Because no one ever wakes up and says, “Today I’m having an affair.” Affairs are slow burn decisions, with a wick a mile long made of little steps and little compromises.

Are you single?

Did your married friends of the opposite sex dump you the second they got hitched?

Are you married? What’s your approach? What are your boundaries?

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Comments

ProudAtheist Nov 20, 2009

Totally outrageous, the problem is within you if you think that getting driven by the opposite sex will lead to adultery. If you cannot sit in the same car with a member of the opposite sex and not be tempted to embrace then you should give your marriage a second thought, enough said.

Keep a open mind, and not be controlled by the book. It’ll only lead to disappointment, it’s science.

JCSoldier Nov 21, 2009

Its not that a simple action will lead to adultery, its just easier to not be in those situations when we can avoid it to make up for when we cant. Besides, being driven by a woman, how easy is it to steal a glance at any part of her, to us that is adultery so its not as easy to avoid as you may think.

ProudAtheist Nov 22, 2009

That’s awfully silly if you ask me, even childish. So does that mean you cannot watch a television show or a movie where a female character (or characters) are dressed scan-dally plaid? Does it make it adultery to attend a concert where a female musician is wearing an outfit that reveals cleavage. Of course men are going to stare, it’s in the human condition. Some women dressed a certain way to get looked at, not saying they dress that way to get drooled at. It gives some women (not all women) a feeling of confidence, empowerment even. That’s how the real world works.

@zenitramsirk Jan 26, 2010

Not sure what scan-dally plaid is, but if you mean scantily clad, then yes. It's entirely possible to just look away. I know quite a few men, my husband included, that will look at something else when a Victoria's Secret commercial comes on. Personal choice, if you guard your eyes, you guard your heart. The world is what you make it.

annonymous Nov 23, 2009

Affairs tend to have at least three components: proximity; frequency; and secrecy….typically in that order. You have the opportunity to be near a person (and in this tech-age this can also be on-line); what begins as a business lunch, a drink after work, a meeting in the office begins to occur more and more frequently. At first, such meetings, get-togethers are well intentioned and public. Spouses are informed, others are present, everyone knows. But the proximity and frequency can be "misconstrued" and so eventually, in order to not be misunderstood (because you know how people like to talk, and I'm not all together sure how my friends/spouse might feel about this one particular meeting time/locale, I'll keep this one to myself. Oh, and uh, er the next one and the next and….

Faerylandmom Dec 31, 2009

I don’t think he’s saying that he’s worried he’d have an affair. As a Christian, I was brought up to “avoid all appearance of evil”. Basically, it’s not an issue of trust, respect, or temptation. It’s an issue of how it LOOKS to spend an hour alone with a woman. His wife probably wouldn’t worry for one second, and I’m sure Jon isn’t worried he’d jump the lady.

It’s just basically a way to stay above reproach. No one can tell his wife (because there are gossips who do that – especially in the Christian community) “Well, I saw Jon in a car ALONE WITH A WOMAN IN LA!!! I’m just telling you this because I think you need to know.” Sad to say it, but Christians are terrible about that kind of thing.

It boils down to avoiding drama, and never giving anyone the opportunity to speak against you – even though, in all likelyhood, there was no problem to begin with. Has nothing to do with trust or respect. Just accountability.

Philistine Nov 23, 2009

Dear admin,

You're an idiot. Seriously. You can't handle being driven in a car by (*gasp!*) a woman!? Are you an Afghan? A Saudi? Or some kind of raging pervert?

You had to think about how you would handle being alone in a car for an hour with a strange woman, and came to the conclusion that you'd better not risk it. Unbelievable. Please, either get used to living in the civilized world, or turn yourself in as someone who cannot be trusted not to rape if given the opportunity.

I don't have Jesus at the center of my life, but at least I can trust myself not to molest cab drivers.

ProudAtheist Nov 23, 2009

An ideal relationship is when two members (of the opposite or the same sex) are committed to one another. It’s built upon trust, honesty and respect. At the same time an ideal relationship can have its ups and downs (no relationship is perfect). Respect is a two way street, you have to respect that your significant other has friends of the opposite sex and that will never change. At the same time you expect the same thing, it’s a pretty simple concept. Honesty and trust are the ladder, if you cannot be honest with your significant other regarding anything (ANYTHING) and / or you cannot trust them (or they can’t trust you or be honest with you) then that is where the problem begins (and ends, it’s just that simple). When a relationship is solid then there should be no need to lie about anything, or question the motives of each other.

Of course there will be times when you will be spending time with a member of the opposite sex, whether it will be a co-worker or a past friend (heck, even a past relationship). As plutonic relationships build with others and more time is spent with such then you should have enough respect for your significant other to let him or her know about it. Being honest is a good building block to gain trust.

If you find that your lying to your significant other just to satisfy the relationship then what’s the point of it. Obviously there a bigger problem at hand, something that could be solved or not.

I myself don’t believe that somebody cheats on another for the simple fact of something to do, there has to be a reason. We all like to think someone just cheats for the sake of sex, but I don’t.

guest Nov 24, 2009

what the hell are you people talking about?

Holly Nov 28, 2009

What about open communication with your partner about temptations? Temptations will happen, and partners should understand that. When you were single how often did you end up in bed or entwined with a single woman suddenly out of the blue? If meeting the woman of your dreams and marrying her didn't change that probability, and sudden hookups continue to be a likely situation, I suggest seeing a counselor. If you and your partner can talk about what's too tempting, maybe you can figure out which situations to avoid, rather than avoiding alone time with every woman you know.

I'm a single woman; most of my best friends are men: single, straight, gay and married. With the married men, I'm friends with both partners, and usually better friends with the men. I'm so very grateful the men in my life don't have boundaries that prohibit our close platonic friendships.

Wwjesusdo Nov 29, 2009

I would suggest thinking of people as individuals first rather than primarily as one gender or another. you miss out on a lot of enriching experiences by only being willing to have meaningful interactions with your own gender. plus you can (even if unintentionally) send a hurtful or demeaning message to the opposite gender by refusing to associate with that person. this policy of refusing to be alone with a person of the opposite gender seems more in line with muslim thinking than christian. both jesus and paul appear to have been willing to flout convention in order to experience fellowship with the opposite sex. I am very sorry for you and concerned for the health of the church.

Wwjesusdo Nov 29, 2009

On the other hand, if I think about the airport situation, and if as a woman it was arranged to have a man drive me, I might have requested to either be with a woman or more than one escort in order to guard against being raped. but that is something that could be forced upon you; i have a hard time understanding how people cannot enjoy pleasant conversation for an hour and not trust themselves to keep it from going further. if christianity causes people to lose all control or totally distrust their own self-control — seems like a religion harnessed by satan himself. ridiculous.

JCSoldier Nov 30, 2009

Jon, you are fully justified, every little thing counts, they never said we would be loved for what we do, Ephesians 5:3 all the way!

emu Dec 1, 2009

Jon, I totally respect you for doing this! If I were your wife, I would be both pride and grateful that you care that much about my feelings. And for those out there who are criticizing how we arrange our relationships and our lives in general – our God has not told us what we can't do and then said "feel free to toe the line though" – he has told us to "*flee* from evil"! The question is not "how close can i get to sin without sinning?" it is "How far from sinning can I get?"
That looks different for everyone. "There is nothing outside a person that by going into him can defile him, but the things that come out of a person are what defile him" Mark 7:15

Kara Dec 5, 2009

I agree that men and women should not be meeting alone behind closed doors in many situations (with pastors, bosses, and in other similar situations, it's as much a protection against being accused of wrongdoing as it is against temptation or a matter of comfort for the other person), but I think that meeting one-on-one, especially in public, with a FRIEND of the opposite sex is not only totally acceptable, but healthy.

I am a female who had arranged to meet one of my single guy friends for breakfast after I hadn't seen him for a long time. My husband was not only TOTALLY fine with it, but actually turned me down when I asked him if he wanted to join us (he's seriously not a morning person). Even when we spent a summer apart when we were engaged, he was completely comfortable with the idea of me hanging out with other guys. Seriously, it only made me love him more. Honestly, I think that trust is a great thing, and makes our relationship stronger — I would totally trust him to hang out with a female friend, and his confidence in me only deepens my trust in him.

ruined Dec 11, 2009

Several years ago a pastor friend took advantage of a rough spiritual time I was experiencing. I had trouble separating what this man said was God's will and what I knew to be right. I'm not sure why God allowed me to go through this at a time when I was praying and seeking Him with all my heart. Everybody thinks this guy walks on water – I couldn't talk about it to anyone. I'd die first. Truth is, I was abused sexually AND spiritually. I've been driven nearly to suicide over this – not over this man, but over how in the world could I have failed God like that? How stupid could I have been? I threw away my calling because I was too weakminded to stand up to someone I'd put on a pedestal, who was supposed to have all the spiritual expertise. Well, never again. I was the woman who always had guy friends because I felt that we related better. It never even crossed my mind that another man would be attracted to me (although now I understand it as power over me he wanted). Now I won't trust guy friends and I can't seem to make women friends, so I've stopped going to church years ago. My husband is the center of my life and he is all I need.

Polly Dec 12, 2009

I think maybe a balance needs to be struck. Meeting in private or late at night with members of the opposite sex? Big no-no. Flirting, seeking or encouraging close emotional intimacy with with people you know are ‘taken’? Big no-no. Deliberately going behind a spouse’s back (your own or the other person’s) to meet with an opposite-sex friend? HUGE no-no.

But…

When Jesus found himself alone with the Samaritan woman (John 4) he didn’t walk away or immediately ask her to go get her husband. He was willing to engage her in conversation, a conversation during which he explicitly revealed His identity as Messiah for the first time in scripture. He only sent for her partner (Jesus told her that he knew the man wasn’t her husband) later, when it became clear that this was going to be far more than a short conversation. Moreover, even though he was going against a raft of social standards, his disciples (for once) didn’t question it.

Jesus was without sin, but He was also tempted in every way (Hebrews 4:15) – presumably he wasn’t ignorant of what he was doing or how it could be interpreted. In a strictly segregated society, Jesus time and time again showed compassion and acceptance to women, and they responded by crossing social boundaries to learn from and follow him. Likewise, the permanently-single Paul has a tendency to mention women in his greetings without reference to their husbands (if any) (see for example Romans 16:3-16 for reference to ‘Mary’, ‘Tryphena’ and ‘Tryphosa’), presumably because he had some level of personal relationship with them. Lydia’s (Acts 16:13-15) husband isn’t mentioned, but that didn’t stop Paul from accepting her hospitality and working with her to establish the first church in Philippi.

Once again, I’m not saying that we should have no boundaries when dealing with members of the opposite sex, but neither should we segregate ourselves entirely (Should we have separate pews for men and women? Should Christian women only go out if accompanied by a male relative? Should Christian women be confined to their own rooms in the house, to be certain they don’t inadvertantly encounter a male guest? In some cultures, this is the way things are done. Just to be sure). Should lustful (or other inappropriate) feelings arise, we need to remove ourselves from the particular person or situation which is evoking them, and avoid allowing the same situation to arise again. But to shun all members of the opposite sex in all situations just because they MIGHT evoke such a feeling, or we might evoke such feelings in them, potentially means arbritrarily cutting ourselves off from half of the family of God out of… fear? That doesn’t seem like such a great plan to me.

Laura Dec 12, 2009

My husband is in the Navy. This means that a good number of the people he works with are not only female, but he is more or less required to be friends with them or get along to some extent. Military encourages the comradeship.

I have to trust my husband. Because I've learned that in some cases when people didn't trust me, I ended up doing exactly what they expected me to do, thereby betraying another opportunity to earn back their trust.

I generally handle situations on a case by case basis. If there is some reason I feel I should contact an ex-boyfriend (which I do have two whom I have remained in rare contact with), I ask my husband before contacting them on my own. If they or any other man contacts me, I make sure that my husband is told of the conversation and that the reason etc. is explained.

Jackie Dec 14, 2009

I am a women, and I completely agree with you Jon! This shows great respect and honor towards your wife.

@rodgerobley Jan 1, 2010

Jackie, to expand on that point:

I think Jon's request to ride with a male driver not only shows respect to his wife, but also shows a great deal of respect to the potential woman driver. As someone previously mentioned, it's very easy for guys (I've got 17 years of experience being a guy) to sneak a look at anyy part of a female. When men do that, it degrades a woman to less than God's masterpiece.

+2 Jon!

Blank Dec 14, 2009

To all those who lashed out at this post for no explained reasons, admin WAS NOT saying that he did not meet with members of the opposite sex that were not his friends, he was only saying that he would rather not be in a car alone with someone of the opposite sex who was a complete stranger. Hop off youre high horses and think about this for just one minute, admin did not know this woman, for all he knew she could have been some pervert or what not (it does happen). He was taking a precaution he thought necessary, congratulations to him for making a stand. Not saying that admin or this woman have problems but just like some people choose not to enter betting places as a precaution, admin chose to ask for a male driver as a precaution.
I am female single and try not to be alone in cars with male friends it is a precaution i choose to take. Each to their own.

Autumn Dec 15, 2009

The only friends of the opposite sex I have are friends I've known since I was in grade school and ones who know my husband almost as well as they know me. The best question to ask yourself is, "Would I be ashamed if someone saw me in this situation right now?" Or "Is there anything about this situation that I would keep from my husband or wife?" It doesn't matter how small, if you lean towards wanting to avoid anyone you know or keeping parts of the situation secret from your spouse, you need to change your approach immediately. Trust and communication with your spouse is important–if my husband is ever uncomfortable, no matter how "unjustified" he may seem to an outsider, I do not go through with whatever plans make him uncomfortable. It helps reinforce that he is most important, not a new friend.

Liz Dec 16, 2009

I categorize this with the side hug but worse. I know several people who follow this rule and while I respect their reasons I find them trumped up and insulting. If a full hug or a car ride in the middle of the day in well populated LA will cause you to sin, there are bigger problems here. If a person can't keep from fantasizing about a person or worse yet committing adultery based on one car ride, then they may as well live in a bubble.
As for the insulting bit, when I get a side hug I always feel like it's because they don't want to hug me and are suffering through it. Do I smell? or are you aroused by all physical contact and if so is it all women, or just attractive ones? I mean hugs are nice, but they don't make me want to do anything else. But I can live with the side-hug, however the sudden social drop or being pushed to have all communication through the wife is extremely insulting. It's as if I'm only a woman and not good enough to talk to, or I'm a homewrecker that has to be dealt with. Trust me, I'm not that sexy or conniving. If a man wouldn't do a business lunch with me I would think he didn't want to do business with females which is illegal.

nate nims Dec 18, 2009

These relationships are awkward only when we jump to the conclusion that opposite sex relationships are implicitly sexual. We can do better than this; we aren't Freud and not everything has to be about sex. I have a lot of great relationships with female friends and I would never give those up. Admittedly I am not married and I cannot speak to that complication. However, I am sure that we in the church can say that men and women can have non-awkward, non-sexual relationships because men and women are relational beings.

Ashley Van Otterloo Dec 20, 2009

I was raised in Awkwardville when it came to relationships with the opposite sex. In some ways, I feel it's an artificial awkwardness that's embedded by (sorry) thoughts like this post within the christian culture. I think it's possible that focusing so much on avoiding sexual temptation causes us to over-sexualize casual encounters, and see each other as some hot and bothered landmine waiting to explode if we happen to spend more than five minutes alone in conversation.

Along the way, I've made some spectacular friendships with all different walks of believers (and non-believers), some of whom happen to be of the opposite sex, and (remarkably) I've found that we've managed to carry on close friendships for nearly a decade without bursting into orgy. My respect and love for these individuals causes me to value them in more than two dimensions, and to respect the preciousness God created them with. If we wonder about the other person's motives for some actions, we do this crazy novel thing: we point blank ASK them about it. It's generally resolved without a hitch.

Perhaps the solution for "Awkward Opposite Sex Friends" isn't removing the "opposite sex friends", but instead developing enough good boundaries. discernment, communication and maturity to remove the "awkward" stigma.

Porter Doran Dec 21, 2009

If you have to ask these questions, then you can expect to get whatever your particular local culture gives you, for friendship, marriage, or scandal. He who lives by others' expectations will die by others' expectations.

isaac Dec 22, 2009

Marriage is good enough to help control your passions. I agree with ProudAtheist on how rediculous the mentioned way of thinking is. God has empowered us. Live by the Spirit. Don’t Bring a gun to a God fight. Praise God

dano853 Dec 28, 2009

As a man who has dealt with same gender attraction my whole life, often my opposite sex friendships are more relaxed than my guy/guy friendships. I found myself making friends with attractive brothers, not having overtly sexual intentions, but because it was an established pattern. I have since found it important to look past appearance. God showed me that each person is one of His beautiful creations whom He loves and wants to have a relationship with. If I look at people that way it eliminates the tendency towards lust or exploitation. This works regardless of gender attraction. And No its not automatic, I still have to remind myself… Daily.

Mer Dec 30, 2009

The whole idea of requesting a ride switch because of gender is totally out of my sphere of thought.

I'm a pastor in PAOC (Canadian equiv. to Assemblies of God) in the States – so pretty conservative, although they do ordain women.

So perhaps this post hits me oddly because I'm Canadian.
Or because I'm a female pastor whose husband isn't a pastor, so I do a lot of church stuff he's not there for.
Or maybe because I don't fight the whole "make sure it LOOKS above board" thing like guys do.
Or maybe because I've been very careful from high school to treat people like brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers (and take that skill to casual conversations with acquaintances)

But in my mind, what I do in business and what I do in church shouldn't be different things. People are people.

As a younger female – married for a few years – a pastor — it would be pretty sexist of me to refuse to meet with males or drive with males. All the other youth pastors in my area are guys. A lot of my friends are guys. And the same boundaries that apply in my other field (at the hospital) need to apply at church – but not an artificial, extra set of boundaries specifically for Christians!

That means I will talk to people, drive with people, and work with them like human beings… churched or non. I'll go for coffee or lunch with my guy friends or my girl friends — it's not like I'm spending a lot of time with any of them, and certainly not in any quantity that would threaten my marriage.

My husband and I hang out all the time. We get groceries together and watch movies together and pretty much continue to date each other. We don't just see each other right before bed. When that's healthy, a lunch or a coffee or a day hanging out with a friend from Bible college or that I met in the city is certainly no big deal. There's no emotional connections being made that would even come close to marriage. DH and I are open and talk a lot – we know each other's full pasts, and nothing is hidden. And we trust each other – in money, in business, in our house, in sex, in life. That trust enables friendships with others, because they aren't even close to that level.

For example, our X3watch (the accountability program from XXXchurch) is installed on my computer at work, our home computers, and we have the emails sent to each other – and my brother, so we have multiple people keeping each other accountable. As husband and wife, that isn't off-limits.

TONS of people can't do that…. they don't feel that open, don't have time to communicate, have a hard past that makes that level of openness unthinkable until God does further work in their lives— there may be extra boundaries to set up to keep trust. Or there may be broken trust which has to be regained very slowly

And no matter what, I wouldn't be consistently making connections with the same person of the opposite gender, whoever they were.

But a single ride from someone being sent over by a conference? I wouldn't ever have thought about it — any more than I'd think about the conversation I had that day with a taxi drive or a bus driver or the guy making my coffee.

Being married to me means it's extra-safe – there's no question with me – I'm married – off limits. And I'm smart enough to communicate that in my dress and conduct – whether I'm at a rock show or a baby shower or a house party or a denominational conference :) No matter who you talk to, look them in the eye, give a firm handshake and smile. I find I can slip into conversation with most acquaintances in a fairly familial way — it's a skill I've honed by constant practice since I was a (shy!) teenager – and it can be learned by anyone.

I know I'm rambling a bit, and I hope I don't sound arrogant…. but don't let a broken world dictate how God intended us to be – human beings in love with God and reflecting it with their lives! Not fear that the Fall makes our sexuality jump uncontrollably into friendships, acquaintances, business partnerships and networking in a way that corrupts even riding in a car with someone!

Christy Robinson Feb 4, 2010

This spells out exactly what I think about this blog post. The people who've given me the Heisman treatment the most in life are married Christian men. In the workplace and everywhere else, I'm treated like a PERSON. Not a potential seductress out to potentially unleash my Jezebel powers and land these guys and their wives in Potential Divorce Court. Not everyone in a skirt is THAT big of a danger to your marriage. Sometimes it's preoccupation with the FEAR of indiscretion that causes a hair-trigger-libido.

Mer Dec 30, 2009

(I also should add though, that I've also worked in everything from landscaping to carpentry to tiling to painting to finance things, both before and after marriage – sometimes with my husband, often alone. There's a lot of conversations I've had over breakfast or in that Tim Hortons break in the pouring rain between lawns… but there's also a lot of silence and get 'er done mentality that goes with it).

So I've worked in industries that (like the church) are very male-dominated. I also grew up with learning carpentry and renovation skills from my dad, and my interests are more in the video games, poker, fishing and hockey direction.

So I'm used to every form of the side-hug and A-frame hug and any other way of artfully maintaining a certain distance from people. I'm used to clapping people on the back and standing at a way that maintains comfortable distance. I'm used to poking fun at the Leafs and making fart jokes (sorry) and just spending drives rocking out to music or silently spaced out.

So I do admit that have a lot of conversation, skills, and work experience influencing this conversation as well that many women won't have… and that's not to sound arrogant, but to provide a sort of disclaimer that I've had experience that's really shaped me.

And while I can dial it up girly for those baby showers and reflect that side of my personality as well — when you're used to operating as the tomboy God's made you to be (while still being his beautiful daughter) it can definitely be a LOT easier to figure this stuff out if you know which end of a hammer you're holding than if you've grown up without that type of framework to figure this out in.

Mer Dec 30, 2009

(and of course, the typical youth ministry policy of not riding alone in a car with somebody under 18 of the opposite gender applies – we're not quite as litigious in Canada, but I thought it was wise to implement that policy for obvious reasons).

tatters Jan 2, 2010

Interesting thread. Please, before I start waffling, that I'm not criticising anyone & I wholeheartedly appreciate that you need to do what you need to do & some people also need to not criticise someone elses decision, so I'm not trying to do any of that, but add some thoughts to the discussion.
I love the fact that once my friends (male & female) are married, it's far easier to chill out with the guys because they're married & therefore no-one (should be!) is thinking, she's looking to go out with him (sorry, English terminology!) – & therefore it feels safer & more relaxed.
Whilst I wouldn't want to encourage anyone to do something they felt was unsafe, I also think that spending a bit of time with someone of the opposite sex to whom you're not married ideally shouldn't be excluded- and yes, "crazy aunt" I've also suffered from the "we're married/have kids & don't associate with single people".
Please do whatever it takes to protect your marriage, and there's also an issue of "avoid the appearance of evil" but there's also the issue that spending time with someone of the opposite sex in public shouldn't be the deal breaker in a marriage, and won't be unless there's other stuff going on.
My advice (& I'm single) is have good friends of both sexes & share them with your wife/husband. I appreciate I'm extremely blessed in this, but my best guy friends are all married to my best female friends.

Tim Jan 3, 2010

Well this is more of a vent than anything else, but my girlfriend is best friends with one of my guy friends, to the point that it drives my crazy that she makes plans with him and this other guy she's friends with without me, which worries me so much. I told her about this, but she says that I'm just gonna have to get over it. Which I can't, cause I don't want to share her with two other guys all the time.

Can anyone help with what I could say to her again to show just how much it's affecting me? Any tips?

@coreyerb Feb 3, 2010

Sorry I'm late to the party but thought I'd try.

I think it's natural to say you don't want to share her with two other guys all the time, because if you were married it might seem like the four of you were married, which is NOT a good thought. But ask yourself, what is she getting out of these friendships? Do they listen to her, and relate to things she's going through? Does she just go out and have a good time hanging with them? If you don't know why she hangs out with them so much, ask her, but tactfully and only out of care for her and because you want to know her perspective.

Her response, "just get over it," probably isn't right. She could probably do better to meet you halfway and ease your fears by talking about what she gets out of those hangouts, and reassuring you that they're strictly friends and that neither she nor the guys have feelings otherwise. And if she says that it's platonic, you need to be able to trust your partner enough that she is able to know if a guy's hitting on her and respond appropriately. Imagine if you're married and you can't trust your wife to go to the grocery store just because the cashier will hit on her. If you can't trust her, that's not a healthy relationship. She is right, though, you aren't married and if you have a problem with it the door's always an option.

If she's getting something from those relationships that you aren't providing, you can take it as constructive feedback on your job as a boyfriend, and hopefully start providing for her some of what she has to go get from them. If it's that they listen to her, try to listen better yourself. If it's that she has fun with them, try to go have fun with her sometimes. But if it's just that they're her friends and she enjoys their company, assuming it's healthy, that's just life. I don't buy into the mindset that a lot of Christians have that your spouse has to provide everything you need all the time forever. If so, I'd just sit at home with my wife until eternity and I'd avoid outside human contact. I don't think that's the case though. Every personality is unique. Some people just provide something for you that you can only get from them – that's why you're friends with them. If that's the situation with those guys, try to ask your girl questions and make sure the relationships aren't problematic, but then just go with it. You say one of them is your guy friend as well; try and plan a hangout with all of you together. Don't weasel into all of their hangouts but try to show your girl that you're supportive of her friendships and trust her and want her to be happy.

Any thoughts? Hope that helped even a little and wasn't completely off base. Actually, I hope you've resolved it already and don't need anything ha.

Tim Feb 3, 2010

Yo dawg. Bit late, she dumped me saturday because she didn't "feel mature enough". But then that night went out with those guys again. Hmmm. They both really like her, I know that. Too difficult to even consider doing again.

Andre Dickson Jan 5, 2010

I'm a single guy, 23, I've been a Christian for 5+ years. I'm celibate, but it's taken me some time to grow into it. I had a long term (2.5 yr) relationship in which I moved in with my girlfriend after the first year. Just wanted to give you a little background of my life experiences.

Being adopted into God's family at 18, I have a huge struggle discerning between who God has called me to be, and who the church, and it's culture, is asking me to be. The church is ridiculous. I love it more than anything on the face of the earth, but nonetheless it's ridiculous. I think everyone can agree that the church is not perfect. God is constantly correcting us, and if Jesus showed up today with the intention of clearing up a few things, I'm sure he would have a whole list of the ridiculous things Christians do and ask, "where did you get this from?"

Being in a committed relationship is so different than being single. I remember all the awkwardness that was associated with going to church with my significant other. You must fight this! There is no need for it, and you and your wife should be able to have fellowship with whomever God puts in your place, without allowing a thousand years of stupid culture (world culture + church culture) to penetrate into your life an immobilize you. I believe your view is based out of an irrational fear of infidelity. "Affairs are slow burn decisions, with a wick a mile long made of little steps and little compromises." What you've said here is very true. So why are you so concerned about having lunch with another woman? Or being alone with another woman.

As a single guy, I've embraced platonic relationships with women, and sometimes I even slept over at my female friends house. It's just the two of us, and we don't end up in bed together. We're both committed Christians, and we respect one another. It's not like she's repulsive either. She's a cutie, and there is at least a mild attraction between us. Now, you start cranking up that attraction level and I would question allowing myself to be in a situation like that.

I think the heart of the issue is the heart in the issue. What is your heart? If I were married, and had a friend who I thought was attractive, I would either be able to view her as a friend, or I would lust for her. As a single guy, I'll admit, I meet married women who are so smoking hot that it is a battle for me to tell my brain to shut up and get in line. It's a battle, and I'm confident that the battle will be won, and God will help me. It's hard, and it takes determination but once the demons are gone they're gone and I can live freely.

GSTX Jan 7, 2010

Here is what I know. Joseph fled from a very obvious (very obvious) situation.
Jesus met with the woman at the well alone. I'm glad He didn't refuse that meeting. But isn't it interesting the human perception of that meeting. I have heard all to often that Jesus was attracted to her. So is it a God thing or a mankind thing…this problem that was posted about? Sounds like a mankind thing. So as a mankind thing…let the Holy Spirit direct you. God knows your heart and the hearts of others. There are some relationships you have to step away from and others that should be perfectly fine. No hard and fast rule here. As usual, we are trying to make life black and white when God shows me all the time how gray it is. If He told Jon to not ride with a college girl from the airport, I respect that. He knows Jon and the girl and that is just how it has to be. Maybe Jon wouldn't have felt so convicted if it was my granny. Just sayin'.

@coreyerb Feb 3, 2010

Thank you. Sometimes I think we lack rational thought when it comes to matters of doing the "right" thing. I don't believe the topic of opposite sex relationships when you're married is ever addressed in the Bible, and I agree that we're given the Holy Spirit to figure out what to do when God's Word didn't mention it.

Bemused Jan 9, 2010

Why on earth would you need to think about sex all the time? It's just another person!

mark Jan 14, 2010

This is pretty easy in a ministry job, but in my job it would be impossible. I work extremely closely with a mix of male and female colleagues and often travel together, but if you keep relationships professional and discuss them with your spose regularly then this shouldn't lead to any problems. That together with not drinking too much at Christmas parties and having the wife pick you up from the restaurant/pub also helps

j Jan 20, 2010

im engaged and soon to be married. ive dated before BUT there is something very different about this kind of relationship. spiritual? or just emotional i dont know. but what i do know is i am faced with problems like this every day, and while i would NEVER cheat, to me anything less than what jonathon did is just disrespectful. honor your wife, even your soon to be wife. if you love her.

jill Jan 22, 2010

Perhaps if my husband had made similar decisions, the slow burn of his affair would have never started. I don't know.

But, as a woman, I sometimes find it offensive when men do this (avoiding meeting with women in regard to business). I almost take it personally, as if because I'm single and remotely attractive that I'm after every man on the planet and they all need to utilize the buddy system to avoid being seduced over a meeting or coffee.

Then I start to think, geeze, are men so weak that they can't handle interaction with females without the possibility of crossing the line?

Either way, I think it's a sad day when men or women don't respect marriage enough to avoid even suggesting the buddy system.

@zenitramsirk Jan 26, 2010

lol. Somebody thought you were bragging about being rich because of this post. My faith in humanity is at an all-time low.

Randall Potter Jan 27, 2010

David Robinson ( NBA player and a strong Christian ) says something like this:
"If a woman is going to be disrespected it's not my wife."

He said in a position where women throw themselves at him, try to get him into trouble, he'll ignore, level with them straight, and do whatever it takes to preserve the sanctity of his marriage to his wife.

+10 for David Robinson.

My marriage's integrity is first and foremost whether there are "temptations" present or not. I don't care how awkward or silly I may look to others I always try to stick to these ( sometimes I wind up in a weird situation by accident ( person interviewing me is a woman, person picking up for rental car is a woman ) :

Never find myself alone with a woman if it is avoidable.

Never behind closed doors with a woman if it is avoidable.

Avoid small talk that seems flirtatious. Sometimes the check-out lady tries to make small talk more than "how are you today." I'm just polite in response without leaving doors open for further communication.

If I read signals from a woman who seems interested, I'll actually scratch my face with my ring hand and try to mention my Wife in some fashion.

On correspondence with women I'm not familar with, for example the music lady at church – I try and copy her husband on the email until there is a pattern of safety. My wife is always in the loop.

My wife has access to all of my email accounts.

In my opinion the fact is – you're right – it's small compromises that lead to affairs. God first and then your marriage second. If you find yourself rationalizing anything above your marriage then you do not have your priorities straight.

Rationalizing sounds like:
"Well we were friends before we were married, never mind we dated – that's over."
- That's defensive justification. Why defensive? Why the need to justify? Usually sounds like ignoring the Holy Spirit.

"It's just once and it's no big deal."
- If you have to say "it's just once" – then you already know you shouldn't be doing it. If you have to say it's no big deal, then you know it is a "deal" you're just minimizing it.

"Other Christian people I know seem to handle it fine."
- Do they? Are you in their head? Know their true thought life? Truth is – you don't really know how they handle it – only God Does.

"They are just a friend."
- Again check out that word "just." That's a key word for rationalizing.

Matthew 7:13
13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
-Jesus

Interesting broad and wide versus narrow.

Wide – generally accepted, everyone does it, it's no big deal, the rest of the world doesn't look down on it, my friends do it, i don't want to be weird, what harm could it really do, it must be an issue for me if i have to go to these extremes…

Narrow – God, wife, kids, extended family, friends, acquaintances, the rest of the world. Seems like a straight forward approach. Now give each level a certain respect rating. So let's say God is 7 and wife is 6. If the person you're wanting to have lunch with is a level 3 or 2 – why are they getting priority over 7 and 6?

Pray about it. God Calls us to be different. To protect love and show it.

You can say no in these situations without being a jerk. Be straight with them –

"Out of respect for God and my wife I can't go to lunch with you."

Could create a great witnessing opportunity. If the member of the other sex sounds interested in why you feel that way and wants more info – refer them to your spouse.

In Jesus,
-Randall

lilmisskimmer Jan 28, 2010

Hi I am single & I work as a kids/youth pastor. I work in a church. I work with men. The rest of the Pastors are married men, the board of deacons – married men. My district super superintendent you guessed it … Married man!
Sometimes I attend 'Pastors' conferences where there are two options for some of the plenary sessions: Option A: Hang out with the married men or Option B: Attend the Pastors wives social/session.
I have been asked on numerous occasions…. where is your husband? would you like us to save a seat for your husband …? Oh are you ________ 's wife?
I could probably ramble on this subject for hours…. but instead i have a couple things have I helped me that I thought I would share.

1. As a single person allow yourself to have friends of the opposite sex. But set clear emotional boundaries. Refuse to play games! Don't make this person your primary confidant! Keep things honest and upfront. Choose not to be the person who feels lonely and so then just uses people to fill the space.

2. If you have a friend of the opposite sex who gets married. Change boundaries accordingly. This might mean that your friendship with this person dramatically changes so EXPECT the friendship to change. & thank God for the gift that that friendship is and what it had to offer.
Embrace the change. Let go… friendships are always developing, changing, moving on.. and just because a friendship changes doesn't mean that you should cut off all.. opposite sex friendships…. because the guys and girls around you have a lot you can appreciate and learn from.

Embrace your circumstances: Go to a movie by yourself. Do hang out with your friends that are couples. Don't just be the third wheel… be the third friend in a group of friends … hanging out!

Slazie Feb 3, 2010

I think it also depends on your relationship with the couple. I'm single and am friends with a couple for eleven years now and for the past five years I've worked at the same company as the guy. I give him a ride pretty much every work day as they only have one car and my friend needs it to get the kids to and from school. There is no awkwardness between us and that's probably because we've known each other for years and I've watched their kids grow up. But I do feel awkward when I have to take another friends husband home from work when she leaves work early because I don't really know him….so I guess it all depends on your relationship with them as a couple.

Kathy Puente Feb 6, 2010

I'm a 50 year old female and have been involved in volunteer positions in ministry for about 25 years. Although I do agree with not putting yourself into compromising situations, the strictness with which the rule is followed has hindered my work and ability to serve. Men are so worried about the position it puts them in, that they don't realize the hardship it can cause women who are trying to serve. I once served in a ministry and did fine while the department was located in the main office where there were many people working. Then they moved the department to another isolated part of the building where only one man worked. I could no longer serve in the ministry. Usually it takes weeks to schedule a short meeting in a public place because the man had to find another man to accompany him. Women are "half the sky" and 50% of the population, however, they are only a small percentage of the people serving in God's work. We need to ask why, and we need to come up with a better solution than the rigid hedge of protection that the rule provides. We are losing faithful work, creative ideas and innovative solutions because we are not utilizing all of the talent that God has provided to the church.