(Last week I got to finally meet Bryan Allain at the Catalyst Conference. It’s always fun to turn someone you’ve known online 3D and actually meet them. And now I can say with living proof evidence, that Bryan is funnier than me. Regularly and consistently. And today, that is exactly what he brings. Here is his latest guest post on Stuff Christians Like.)
Playing Fantasy Football for Money
A few weeks ago I joined eleven fellow churchgoers in my brother-in-law’s basement for 2 hours of drafting fake teams made up of real players. Some call it, “The Dumbest Thing I’ve Ever Heard Of”. We call it “Fantasy Football”. For the third year in a row, one of the new guys approached me and sheepishly asked:
New Guy: “So, um, are we playing for fun, or are we…playing for a little, um, money?”Me:
“Yeah, we each put in $20.”
New Guy: “Good, it’s always more fun when there’s a few bones on the line.” (At which point I would immediately kick him out of the house. Anyone who refers to money as “bones” should be banned for life from your fantasy league on principle alone.)
The topic of gambling is a HUGE can of worms among Christians, and I’d be lying if I said part of me doesn’t want to leave that can unopened on the shelf next to the bottled water and the rest of the Y3K preparedness kit. The truth is, some of you reading this are completely against gambling in all forms, and are already giving me dirty looks through your screens (I can feel them). Others of you passionately love gambling and have already placed prop bets in Vegas on how many comments this post will get (Vegas currently has the under/over set at 32.5).
There are Christians on all sides of this issue, and while many of them know exactly where they stand on gambling, not everyone is sure where they should draw the line when it comes to risking their hard-earned money (which technically belongs to God anyway, right?). Can I buy a $5 powerball ticket and still go to heaven? Can I take communion on Sunday if I wagered twenty bucks on my golf round yesterday? Is it true that NCAA Bracket Pools were created by demons who had grown tired of waiting around for Armageddon?
I can’t answer those questions for you. But what I can do is give you a list of guidelines to help you figure out whether or not you should play fantasy sports for money. Bet you $5 it helps you out …
SHOULD I PLAY FANTASY FOOTBALL FOR MONEY?
If you’ve always wanted to be a part of the NFL and this brings you closer to the game, then go for it.
If you currently play, coach, or referee in the game, then maybe not.
If your league’s $20 entry fee means skipping a movie or dinner out for a month, then go for it.
If your league’s $2,000 entry fee means skipping a mortgage payment and tithe check for a month, then maybe not.
If no one else in your league has ever watched a football game before, then go for it.
If you’ve never watched a football game before, then maybe not.
If you found $50 in your Bible on the way to the draft, then go for it.
If you stole that Bible from someone at church to sell on eBay, then maybe not.
If you’re excited about the fellowship you’ll get from interacting with other owners during the season, then go for it.
If you’re excited about colluding with other owners to cheat your way to a tainted championship, then maybe not.
If you’re favorite Bible passage is “the love of money is the root of all evil”, then go for it.
If you’re favorite Bible passage is “then they cast lots for Jesus’ garments”, then maybe not.
If the thought of it reminds you of when you used to make friendly wagers on games with your dad or your kids, then go for it.
If the thought of it reminds you of when you used to steal from the offering plate to pay your bookie, then maybe not.
If you plan on donating all your winnings to the Church’s prison ministry, then go for it.
If you are currently a part of the Church’s prison ministry because you’re incarcerated, then maybe not.
and finally,
If you heard an audible voice from heaven say, “Hey! This is God. Don’t gamble.” then maybe not…but…If you heard an audible voice from heaven say, “Hey! This is God. Let it Ride!”, then hey…Let it Ride!
So what are your thoughts on friendly wagers, Fantasy Football, and waking up in Vegas?
Let ‘em ride in the comments…
PS…for daily doses of Bryan’s nonsense, check out his blog and his Twitter Feed.
Comments
[...] P.S. - here’s the link for my post at Stuff Christians Like: Playing Fantasy Football for Money. [...]
gambling is like any other entertainment, going to the movies, buying the newest techno gadget, buying new music, etc…for me (and for family) it's dirt bikes. i have wondered if the money we spend on enteraining ourselves could be used in a more wise manner and to start looking at tithing as a starting point for giving instead of the only giving.
I agree that we are called to more but we are also given freedom to live life and love life. I don't think we should feel guilty for enjoying life, but I also don't think we need to ignore the plight of others. I struggle with this, as I commented below, but we must find moderation in our giving and entertainment.
what kind of dirt bikes do you have? i got rid of my Enduro a few years ago.
my 6yr old has a pw50, the 14 yr old & wife share a crf100 and i have a kx125. we've really just started riding around the beginning of this year (at least the rest of the family) i rode alot until about 8 years ago now getting back and having fun watching/teaching the family
Another question/thing to consider would be legality; in some states, football pools and even wagering on fantasy football are illegal. Obviously, if it's against the law, don't do it.
Never played fantasy football, but it seems like paper-trading. It might have some inherent fun, but in the end it's all worthless. I might be missing out on the point though.
Or maybe I just like to gamble with real stocks though.
Actually I find this funny since so many of the people who find gambling inherently evil do not think that stock trading is. I wonder at which point a wager becomes evil? I assume the odds affect this, so better than 50% of less than 50%?
Isn't the stock market a form of investing? That's a lot different than playing the Powerball, isn't it?
Well, I'd say lately you have better odd in Vegas. Go look at all trading sites and you will find something along the lines of "all stocks represent an inherent risk." The larger the potential gains, generally the larger the potential risk. I think the wisdom the be sought is not to be in love with the money. Then you are less likely to risk it all foolishly and be cut throat … Seems like there is a Bible verse along those lines.
Follow up question: Is it wrong that the only reason I'm posting is that I bet the Over on the Vegas Comments Line?
Absolutely not. I'm taking the over as well. Easiest money i've made all week! ;o)
You quickly know if your decision has been blessed by God if you can get Adrian Peterson, Andre Johnson, & Peyton Manning in the first three rounds of your draft. If you have LaDainian Tomlinson, Terrell Owens, & JaMarcus Russell after the first three rounds of the draft, head for the door and ask the Lord for forgiveness.
Funny thing about that statement is I actually got those guys in my fantasy draft this year. I guess i am loved
My hubby plays a monthly poker game with a $10 buy in. That's a no brainer, he has a fun guys night out for $10. I can't say that my girl's nights stay at $10. He also plays Fantasy Football. the league has crazy rules where you pay to trade, add/drop, everything. Most teams are co-owned to keep the cost down. My only complaint on this one is that Sunday's are stressful around here because he hates to lose regardless of a wager and he doesn't always win. Small wagers good, Big time stakes… not so much. But I don't think this has to do with my faith, more my desire to not waste hoards of money in short periods of time.
$10 is great for a guy's night, we usually end up spending quite a bit more. Even if we just go out in the woods and play paintball, a couple tanks plus a box of balls split between 4 will run more like $20. If we go to the field it is more like $40. Other guy nights involve Buffalo Wild Wings to watch a game or UFC fight and that will run $15-20.
Of course your figure doesn't count food. I'm guessing that puts the figure at more like $15-20. That is still a reasonable price for the evening.
Just helpin' Kevin Cassidy.
When teams lose in our fantasy league, we always say bless their heart. It helps with the losing. We also bring covered dishes to our drafts and we are also sponsered by various local companys. Would SCL want to sponser a draft? Fantasy owners could side hug! Great post!
Oh definitely over. I can't believe it is running so low, the house is going to bust.
Hilarious. Well done Bryan.
I think gambling is a sin because if you win you might dance.
Now that is dangerous, because we all know what dancing leads to. David danced, and commited adultery, and had a guy killed. See how evil dancing is? I bet it all started with betting.
"Hey I bet I can kill that lion with a sling and stone" It all went down hill from there.
hahaha! ok. just laughed out loud at that one… good call brother. haha
Know why Bible College rules say you can't have premairtal sex? It might lead to dancing.
I don't care who you are, that's funny right there.
Awesome. Great job nailing the problem so clearly!
Awesome. Great job identifying the problem so clearly
hahahahahahaa!
And we all know what dancing leads to…..
yeah, stupid reality shows like "dancing with the stars" and "so you think you can dance."
I'm with Kevin Cassidy. Let's go 33!
At any rate, I think anything in moderation is fine. For the sake of argument, let's consider alcohol (assuming most of us are ok with alcohol). A beer or 2 every now and then is probably going to be ok. But then say someone (ok, me) goes out and drinks a case of beer to keep up with my buddies, then there's a problem. Same with gambling — a little bit every now and then never hurt anyone. It's a problem when you're betting the mortgage of your house, or your house itself. Of course knowing your limits is just as important; if you can't drink 1 beer without drinking 10 more, than you should probably shouldn't even start. If you can't gamble $10 without gambling $1000, you should probably abstain.
I disagree with the "anything in moderation is fine" idea. For example, murder or adultery in moderation is not fine.
(That isn't to say that gambling is therefore wrong – just that we can't use "moderation" alone to justify it)
Ok, truth. I just wasn't thinking that broadly, but you are 100% correct. Apologies.
Hee hee – fun stuff! I've always believed that if it is a small amount (and infrequently) and used for entertainment, what's the problem? If I play $40 at the craps table when I have friends visiting me and they want to "check out the strip," so what? I have christian friends who drop $300 on dinner for "entertainment" and don't bat an eye. Now THAT is craziness in my book. (Is it really 10 TIMES better than a $30 meal? Is that even possible?) But they might think I am wrong in the way I spend my money… whatEVER people. To each his own as far as what is an appropriate way to spend entertainment money.
I personally think $300 for dinner is worse than $40 on craps. I have a problem with exorbitant spending.
haha. good call.
If you have an addiction-type problem with a particular activity, stay away. Kind of like me and the China Buffet. My wife likes to go there because she can get three pieces of sushi and some white rice and some jello for a mere $14.99. However, I need to stay away entirely because once I get in there I run from island to island piling on every greasy fried food I can find. I cram my face and go back two or three times until I need insulin. I try to eat everything at least twice because I have no self-control and I justify it by saying that I'm trying to make up for Kelly and get our money's worth.
I eventually slink out of there covered in sugary grease and shame, looking around to see if anyone I know has seen me leaving the scene of my gastronomical orgy. I imagine this is how it would feel to sneak out of Erotic Empire down on North Main Street. Something that is not inherently sinful (delicious Chinese food) becomes a shameful, sinful event for me. So yes, I stay away from the China Buffet entirely. If that is how gambling is for you, stay way.
your comment completely cracked me up! Dude I am exactly like that! it is intolerable! it is so frustrating! I have really tried to control it but all that awesome MSG Filled goodness just calls me! I have to stay away too…
When I was in Jr High, I remember making a killing off of playing poker with my friends. Texas Hold Em just exploded onto the scene and I had spent my summer vacation watching ESPN and learning how to play, my friends had not. We sat down that day with 20 "bones" each and I ended the day with 200 dollars. It was awesome, until I got home and showed my parents and my dad made me give it back. Dang it
I play fantasy football as well, there is nothing more fun then sitting around a table with a bunch of friends and making fun of the guy that drafts Marc Bulger in the first round or trying to take advantage of the new guy who has no clue who Peyton Manning is.
This is y I counsel my students to just give a portion of their winnings to the church and not tell their parents.
Good point, I learned my lesson pretty quickly. Needless to say we played again.
I'm pretty sure if you draft just Christian NFL players, you're ok to play fantasy football (ie Kurt warner is your starting QB, or I guess you could draft Mike Vick now…not that you'd want to, i'm just saying…). Or, if you have a Godly sounding name for your team, such as PTLforTDs, or GodsHolyWarriors, WorshipEagles, maybe DavidsMightyMen…the possibilities are endless with that. Also, as long as you say "bless" after you mock someone's drafting ability, thats okay as well.
But my other question is, is fantasy football really gambling? I don't play fantasy sports so I don't know, but isn't there some kind of skill/luck/strategy? I don't think something's necessarily gambling just because you pay money and may win money.
believe me, there's WAY more luck involved in Fantasy Football than you think. ask anyone who's ever played it out for a full season.
but yeah, it's not a gambling issue. Really, it's a stewardship issue. The money we have is God's and he's entrusted it to us to use it wisely. I don't believe spending on entertainment is wrong, we just ned to be wise.
I don't think that's the definition of gambling. There's definitely skill, luck, and strategy involved in poker, and most everyone would agree that that's a form of gambling.
I don't have a problem with gambling amounts that would be appropriate to spend on other forms of entertainment (a movie ticket ect.) as long as you're not being greedy.
In Australia we don't do fantasy football so much. Our preferred form of small time group gambling is the Cup Sweep. What happens with that is when there is a very major horse race (usually the Melbourne cup) everyone in the office/group puts in a small amount (maybe $2-5) and is randomly assigned a horse. The person whose horse wins gets the money, and sometimes theres a prize for the person whose horse comes in last. No-one wins much, no one looses much. Its more an excuse to procrastinate working for a while.
Hmm that's a good point. What about betting on horse races? I'm sure there can be skill and strategy in picking the right horse but it still seems to be gambling.
Unless you are white, then the dancing thing just doesn't happen, it turns into gloating
Well I guess I am in trouble, all of my fantasy teams are named "Kyle's Killers" Whoops.
But I am sure there is some kind of Christian only fantasy league out there. Only Christian players are allowed etc….
I guess in the fantasy context it seems more like an admission fee. You pay $10 bucks to play in the fantasy league, and the winner gets $100 or whatever. It's not gambling, it's playing a game. I don't think every game where there is an entrance fee and a prize constitutes gambling.
Horse races, you pick a horse and watch it run. I think in fantasy sports, you actively manage your players and do things that contribute to your success or failure. But again, I don't play fantasy sports so I'm just theorizing.
I guess the real question is, does God care whether something has a high enough element of chance to be "gambling," or whether it requires enough "skill" that it's a game? Does he sit down and calculate the percentage? I doubt it. But I think what He does care about is, what is our focus? What is our obsession? Are we living a life of service to Him, or to some form of entertainment / addiction?
I also need to mention that Jon saying that I'm funnier than him is akin to Tom Brady saying Jimmy Clausen is a better QB than he is. I appreciate the compliment, but let's not go crazy here people.
don't worry…
Gambling becomes dangerous when addiction comes into the picture. Also there's a difference between throwing in some money for fun, and the buying a hundred lotto tickets mentality of poor stewardship. Another interesting take I heard on the issue went something like, "If you go gamble, are you saying to God what you've given me is not enough, so I'll just try to make more myself." I do think that view applies more to random games of chance than something that requires at least some skill.
See, that's exactly what I'm talking about. I actually LOL'd upon reading that and I am very discriminating with the amount of LOL I do. You are hilarious
Let me just say I don't gamble. It is a personal choice based on how I get sucked into things. I like video games, but quite frankly I could spend 24/7 playing them. For that reason I am very cautious about my playing time. Generally I play 1-2 hours a month because otherwise I would play 100-200 a week, which is harder than you might think since there are only 168 hours in a given week but there are some games you can play at the same time as other games so I count those double game hours). Most things in life end up being like that for me. I struggle with moderation, but fail so often. For this reason I intentionally avoid things like gambling.
I also want to complain because not all of my comments are going through. For example, I made this comment earlier and it is nowhere to be found. I also had some more things to say but ID is only showing part of what I typed.
Though I have never played Fantasty Football I worked at a church once where all the staff guys played. At the end of the season the winner got the trophy: a mounted, bronzed, cup.
That's all I have to say about that.
I’ve always figured it was like any other sort of entertainment that you paid for… except that you actually have the chance of getting your money back, plus a little extra.
Also, this post kinda reminds me of a very funny Johnathan Coulton song. Fair warning though, I think there are a couple of off-colorish words in there, but nothing too over-the-top.
http://www.last.fm/music/Jonathan+Coulton/_/Gambler%27s+Prayer+%28Demo%29
I bet on Fantasy Football and I've been to Vegas. I have never seen don't gamble is scripture, but I have seen don't be consumed or ruled by something other than God and gambling could one of those things. The little bit of money I throw at gambling each year means no new PS3 games this winter and I don't know of any brothers/sisters I've caused to stuble by doing this, so I say go for it.
And the fact that I sit our at Buffalo Wild Wings with the rest of my league for the champsion night and have a beer with them has shown them that Christians are not all stuck up, no fun, ultra-moralists. I'd say that it has been a testament to the Gospel, because it has given me the freedom to talk about my life in Christ to each one of them.
You have been to vegas, wow you are a pagan. Just kidding.
Actually I lived in Vegas for 8 months on an internship, so I am with you.
I view FFL as entertainment as well. Our league requires a $20 entry fee which I have found keeps people motivated to stick with it throughout the year. The free leagues I've played in seem to have members that check out half-way through the season.
So what's your team name? Mine? The Roaring Lambs. Go Lambs!
ManEaterz (I'm the only girl in the league)
Kyle's Killers
I guess i'm in the minority voice here, but if we believe that all our money is God's money, as we should, then we should be asking if God would use it for gambling and probably a lot of our other entertainment too. Maybe if we looked at all our expenses as God's investments, then we might be able to find contentment a lot easier as well as make the kind of difference people as rich as we are capable of doing. I guess being a pastor and having so much of my life scrutinized, I tend to stay away from "questionable" things like that. And I don't think it's that much of a sacrifice to keep from taking a chance on causing a "weaker brother" to stumble – a lot easier than Paul's saying he wouldn't eat meat again, if it would cause one to stumble!
I really don't agree with the mentality that as a Christian I shouldn't do things that might cause a weaker brother to stumble. What about church potlucks causing people with weight problems to stumble? Are we going to start having a salad buffet every Sunday afternoon now? We can't live our lives with the fear that our actions are going to cause other people to stumble. I am responsible for me and my choices and you are responsible for yours. I'm not saying I'm going to invite a friend who's struggling with a drinking addiction over for margaritas, but I'm not going to NEVER have a margarita again. (yes I know that was a double negative) I always enjoy pointing out that Jesus first miracle was turning water into wine. Clearly Jesus did not have a problem with drinking, and I think that gambling (that’s what Fantasy Football is) falls into a similar category.
Not only do I believe that fantasy football is ok (and by the way it is legal according to the US Gov't except in 5 states) but I actually play on a site that lets me win (or lose) money every week. I like it because I don't have to wait until the end of the season to collect. The contests are all "reasonable"…from $6 entry fees all the way up to $110 (I usually play the $11 and $22 contests). And if football isn't your thing they have fantasy baseball, NASCAR, hockey and basketball too. They even have college football and basketball. If you are interested, the site is http://www.365fantasysports.com. I play under the name "Michibuck"…feel free to challenge me anytime.
I used to play some $20 poker but had to give it up due to the vicious emotional cycle it always put me in.
Phase 1: "I can afford to lose twenty bucks this week. It won't really put a wrinkle in my budget.
Phase 2: I'm winning! Well this is rather enjoyable. That's a decent amount of money in the pot. I may just decide to spend my winnings on these on these losers as a kind gesture. After all, I wasn't really expecting to come into this money in the first place.
Phase 3: "NOOOO!!!!!! How did I lose? My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?!? Someone obviously cheated! I was planning on putting away the winnings for my kid's college trust fund. Wait, that means this guy cheated my kid out of a good education and a prosperous life. I bet he's gonna blow the money on something stupid like printed t-shirts of 80's "hair bands" or lots of booze. That selfish near-sighted cheater ruined my life!"
…which is why I don't gamble any more.
OMGosh… that is hysterical!
Going for the gold?
Try setting your sights higher
God commodities
http://ChristianHaiku.com – 1 Peter 1:7 , Acts 3:6 , Prov 16:16 …
i've been in offices for years where they do football, basketball, and whatever else. They'll gamble on anything. And when you live in SoCal(which i don't anymore)and live in close proximity to Vegas…you are going to be around peeps who like to gamble. I like to play some Black Jack and the slots, but I don't crave it.
But I think the fantasy league sports are a good way to build relationships. I've got some really good friends who are not Christians who don't gamble, but are in fantasy sports leagues.
I work with all these guys who are really into it. We have a Christian guy who loves it but doesn't believe in gambling so he gets one of the others to front him… I don't do it because I know my chances of getting my money back are so poor. I wanted to go to the riverboat near us when I turned 21 since slots sounded better to me than drinking. My grandmother gave me $50. After I lost $10 in quarters, I realized that I could risk the remaining at the mall and probably get two tops in return!
Please don't sinify fantasy football…next thing you know, its a sin try and win cheesy toys at Chuck E Cheese or stuffed animals at the State Fair.
The best thing about this post is that you incorporated both forms of "your" and "you're". It made me chuckle
As posted about the only way to keep all INvolve in a league is to have a pay league. That being said I yet to play in a pay one…I did win 6 of 8 leagues last year and I get a fancy animated Yahoo trophy, Sweet! Oh yea warning I would only do a pay league with those you know.
[...] Playing Fantasy Football for money. Because it’s not gambling when you’re just “making things interesting.” [...]