Pastors who mess you up.
Mar 1st by Jon- Tagged in:
- pastors
I ran into a friend a few months ago. We hadn’t seen each other in a while so we did the mandatory “life summary” catch up conversation. In the midst of that, she all too casually mentioned, “My husband and I have decided to become foster parents.”
What? That’s a big deal, that’s no small thing. And when I asked her about how they came to that decision, she was quick to give me a two word answer:
“Francis Chan.”
She and her husband had read Francis Chan’s book, Crazy Love
I think there are three primary ways they do that:
1. They tell you to have babies.
I have a friend that has 19 kids. (Possibly an over estimate) Her and her husband are constantly having babies. When I asked her why they wanted such a big family, she said, Voddie Bauchum messed us up.” He’s a Texas pastor who came and spoke at North Point where I attend. He spoke about being fruitful and multiplying. My friends took that to heart. In a big, baby in your belly kind of way.
2. They encourage you to quit your job.
I promise you that right now in Mali or Romania, is a missionary whose journey from Ohio to overseas started with a sermon. They were sitting there peaceful in the pew at church one morning when some minister just dropped a God shaped grenade right in their lap. Next thing you know, they’re getting malaria shots and stepping on a plane for an adventure unlike any other.
3. They tell you to keep your job.
Dang you Andy Stanley. One Sunday, right when I had a pretty good “work grumble” going on, you preached on the idea that God has placed us under the authority of our bosses. You said God always works through authority and doesn’t work through rebellion. Curses!
Those are the three most common ways I’ve seen pastors mess you up. How about you?
Have you ever been messed up by a pastor?
Comments
Voddie Baucham messed me up…and I'm SO glad he did. I actually met the man in real life and was completely star struck…not to mention the guy is HUGE…lol.
That John Woodall sermon a few weeks ago at North Point called "Help!" messed me up. his point was when facing temptaion don't say "don't," say "help!" That was a great sermon for somone struggling to change.
Crazy Love’s been messing me and the girls in my bible study up too!
Still messed up Jon. Learning to love it more and more every day. Don't even want to get un-messed up.
I have had so many occurences of being messed up that I wouldn't dare try to pick one and relive it just now, but the Lord has been good and I've learned to LOVE that feeling.
I hate to be a pain and I won't rave on after this, but did Andy Stanley really say that God doesn't work through rebellion? I'm all for being submissive to your boss, I just am trying to understand if he actually said that God doesn't work through rebellion. I promise I'll shut up about it, though.
Many pastors and speakers have messed me up but not because of their particular words or style but their ablility and God's ability to speak through them just when I need it the most. Honestly, I don't really look at it as a preacher getting a hold of me but the Holy Spirit using people to speak what He wants to tell me. So…I walk away more in awe of who God is.
It's still Francis Chan. My own pastor Craig Groeschel is no slouch either. Andy Stanley's an extraordinarily gifted teacher, as is Rob Bell. But one thing Francis Chan has been talking about lately that most people I know (myself most of all) really need to hear is his "Go clean your room" talk. Let's not talk about and study what Jesus said. Let's do it. http://bit.ly/95i2km
For women, look up Hebrew "chayil" as it relates to Proverbs 31, "oikouros" as keeper of the home in Titus 2, "ezer" which has been translated helpmeet but elsewhere is used as God being our strong tower and defense, etc.
There is so MUCH freedom that I am discovering in the Bible and so much that is not evident in the popular teachings on men and women and relationships in general.
For now I won't go into all the other problems I see with Voddie's teachings. I have, however, contacted him by email about one of them and did not get a response other than a blog post that showed no sign of being willing to listen to a queston asked about why something was biblical. I still think he is not as bad as some of the other teachers I have mentioned, though, and I like reading his daughter's blog.
Please, everyone, do research this as a lot of bad teaching has been filtering into the church for the last few decades and a lot of it is very mainstream and very popular now. Good for you Christina that you and your husband are following God first, not doctrinal systems. Michelle, ditto. I encourage you to research this topic too – the Bible has been coming ALIVE to me in a way it never was before and I think you might have a ball with it too.
I was at a concert last night called Me Addiction . Phil Joel was there, gave an AMAZING concert – and said some stuff that has me in a messed up afterglow. His song "Jealous" really hit home. Still processing his message…
Pastors who have messed me up: Pastor Joe Martin, Pastor Rob Carman, Pastor Shannon Carrier, and of course my trifecta of pastors who will screw up your head with one sentence: PAstor Mark Driscoll, Pastor Matt Chandler and Pastor Perry Noble.____great post Jon!
God has a lot of fun working through Francis Chan, i know it. Crazy Love changed my life.
Yes! I selfishly like reading your blog b/c it feels like "home." I remember that Voddie Bacchum message, and even though I was single at the time, he "messed me up" for my future marriage. I often refer back to some of the things he said during that series. (Like how something with 2 heads is a MONSTER, so how can both the wife AND the husband be the head of the house?)
And there are still bits of wisdom that are stuck in my mind after Francis Chan's 2006 Labor Day Retreat message. He will wreck you, for real.
Chan will get you….careful…..
On top of the three you mentioned up there…I'd like to add Dr. Andy Reid. He smacked a God-sized baseball bat upside my head not once but TWICE yesterday during the two sermons he guested at our church. And yeah, it went back to number two. I'm now praying about how God would have me move forward in His calling for missions work.
Maybe this makes me a bad Christian woman, but I have a real problem with someone standing in a pulpit telling me whether or not using birth control is "Biblical" as if they have the only correct interpretation of scripture. I don't need a pastor to tell me it is my biblical imperative to birth as many children as possible or I'm not doing it right. I do want kids, but I think it would be irresponsible for me and my fiance to have children immediately after we marry as he will still be in school getting his Phd, and I don't think some pastor i have never met in my life can tell me any differently! I just feel like those kind of "mess up" sermons are dangerous when someone is claiming to have "absolute truth" about otherwise not clearly stated principles in scripture.
This was a great post, Jon. Sorry that is the only part that stuck out to me
This doesn't make you bad. I can't find any solid Biblical backing that would make how many kids someone has and when something to be preached from the pulpit. I believe that's between God and the husband and wife.
Well said Rachel. At best I would call any minister who tries to dictate this sort of thing as nosy, tactless, and clueless, at worst cult-leader like and spiritually abusive.
Either way it would be a huge red flag to me.
Alister Begg messes me up all the time. If you have ever listened to him you understand. He's a straight forward Scottish man you brings the word. God through a sermon given by Begg lead to me going on a trip to a middle eastern country . Leaving my husband with my then 2 year old and 4 year old for 14 days. Thats just one case. Another speaker that schools me all the time Beth Moore. That tiny Texan can bring a person on their knees before God in no time. A lot of power in such a tiny lady.
I love Alister Begg!
I've been messed up many times by pastors, and I'm thankful for each and every one of those moments. But the most recent was about a month after Matt Chandler was diagnosed with brain cancer when he said, "Why not me? Why not you?"
Voddie Bauchum and his sermon that we should share Jesus with those in our Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and the outer reaches of the world is the reason that I will be moving to Washington State this summer! Yay! :0). And he is ONE BIG guy!!
Shane Claiborne messed me up when I read Irresistable Revolution. That was followed by Piper's Don't Waste Your Life. Which actually resulted in me changing churches. And then my pastor and elders and the rest of the Body mess me up on a weekly basis. So much so that I even let Jesus mess me up as I learn about what Scripture says about the poor and the fatherless. In fact, I'm moving to the 'hood- only 2 blocks from where gang retaliation ended in arson. Don't tell my mom…
If a pastor doesn't mess you up every once in a while, then he probably shouldn't be in the pulpit. I love a message that scourges me. I prefer to be sand blasted by the word of God. No whitewashing welcome here. My pastor asked us, "Are you useless for the cause of Christ? Are you a useless Christian?" Well, not only have I been useless for His cause, but there are many time when I have hurt His cause. He drops theose God granades in our laps all the time… love that imagery, by the way!
This reminds me of that old Cheech and Chong line: "I used to be all messed up on drugs….Now I'm all messed up on Jesus!"
I'm gonna read Crazy Love as soon as my friend is done with it! I can't wait! Many of my closest friends are raving about it…
I studied abroad in Dubai (I'm from the States) and lately I've been listening to the sermons from my Dubai church and they've been socking me in the gut…actually this past week, both my Dubai pastor and my US pastor used the same quote from Penn Jillette about evangelism! Maybe that means I should do some?
*sighs*
If anybody wants to know, my Dubai church's website is uccdubai.com
When I read the title I thought the post would be about Pastors messing us up in a bad way. My pastor recently preached about abortion and actually showed some video footage of some aborted babies. Lots of people cried like a baby.
Jon, you have impeccable timing. I'm in the midst of making another vocational decision. I've been on staff with a campus ministry for the past 2 years, and was ready to take an easier road. (One that didn't involve fundraising..perhaps?)
But, thanks to my local pastor who dropped a bomb last Sunday, as well as a supervisor that speaks truth like none other showing me a clip of Francis Chan's balance beam; I'm about to make a call this afternoon to leave my current university chapter and plant a new chapter at a different one that currently has no on-campus ministry to students.
Praise God for influential people who drop spiritual bombs of truth.
Here's the Francis Chan clip: [youtube LA_uwWPE6lQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA_uwWPE6lQ youtube]
This made me lol, a lot. Our youth minister messed up our youth group one time. The funny part about it was that it was my husband's first Sunday at our church and he told his parents he didn't want to come back. Our youth minister had just come back from a conference or retreat and was VERY fired up. He was ranting and raving. I don't even remember what he said now but he ended up getting almost the entire youth group to "come forward" at decision time in church. I think a lot ended up doing it out of peer pressure. It was ridiculous!
Seriously! David Platt at the Church at Brook Hills in Birmingham is ruining my life! I caught an early copy of his new book Radical, and it's ridiculous. I spend every shopping trip wondering how many kids my new purse could feed and have ended up giving up some major things in my life this year in order to better serve God. And I've never felt better about it.
Dang you, David Platt!
Pastor's are only human and need to be treated this way, often Pastor's either seek the wise sage gig or are lifted high by followers looking for a Messiah figure. Like "The life of Brian" movie. Pastors can be wise and gifted teachers or prophets, but they can also be false prophets and false teachers. This is how to know the difference Godly Pastors major in: Jesus, Grace, love,hope and faith.
Congrats on the Boundless nod!
http://www.boundlessline.org/2010/03/ever-had-a-p...
Or is that small potatoes to a famous blogger like yourself?
[...] Pastors who mess you up (Stuff Christians Like – Jon Acuff – @prodigaljohn) [...]
You know whose books are guaranteed to mess me up? K.P. Yohannan from "Gospel for Asia." His words can slice through the heart like nothing else.
yeah, i had a pastor who kept telling 17-year-old me that i was going to bible college. i would tell him about all the other offers and scholarships i'd received from other colleges and he would smile and say, "that's nice, but you're going to bible college." well, 4 years later i have a bible college degree! he really messed me up! (heehee, in a wonderful way!)
What about when the pastor says, "If you love Jesus then …" Talk about a guilt trip.
If you love Jesus then you will be back tonight for the evening service (on Superbowl Sunday even!).
If you love Jesus you will contribute to the building fund
If you love Jesus you will…
Yeah…that's not even right. I don't remember Jesus guilting the disciples into anything.
I think the "good pastors" mess you up because the Holy Spirit is working through the for that purpose. My family is messed up…we are going to be moving to Romania as missionaries! Thank the Lord for His faithfulness.
~Chris
http://www.teamguess.com
[...] you have not read Crazy Love, you are missing out. Francis Chan will wreck your life and he’ll almost make you like it while he is doing it. Then you’ll want to hug him [...]
My first pastor on coming home to church was Jim from Harvest Church in Warner Robins, GA. Thank God he messed me up, and my husband too! The first lesson we ever heard at his church was Faith in Stressful Times, and let me tell you, when your marriage has been less than good for a decade and your husband has just returned from a year long deployment and you're not sure you even WANT your marriage to survive? yeah, that's a stressful time!
But, he messed us up. And he brought us into a new relationship with God and each other. What a blessing it is to find a pastor who speaks to your heart!