Loving or hating Glee.

As the nights turn cold and the days grow short, I can’t help but think of one thing. As leaves burst with color and wood fire places light across the Tennessee hills I find myself in, there is one thought that I can’t shake. As the season and sunsets turn into a kind of Thomas Kinkade/Yankee Candle mashup worthy of Double Rainbow strength awe and wonder, one thought is bursting across the landscape of my heart and soul …

It’s almost time to break out Mariah Carey’s Merry Christmas album.

Easily the greatest Christmas album of all time, Merry Christmas is a steady jam of the best holiday songs ever. From the ridiculously awesome “All I want for Christmas is you,” to the gospel choir backed, “Jesus, Oh What a Wonderful Child,” the whole album is a mistletoe flavored cotton candy explosion of perfection. And there’s a part two being released this year. (She should title it either, “Merry Christmas II, the revenge,” or “Son of Merry Christmas.” You can have those for free Mariah!)

But when I tweeted about the album recently I was surprised how the responses only came in two varieties.

Some people loved it.

Some people hated it.

There was absolutely no middle ground. No one “kind of liked” it. You either passionately recognized it as the gift to humanity it is or you blindly missed how wonderful it is.

And the same thing is happening with Christians and the show “Glee.”

If you’ve never seen it, heard about it, been shamed by a friend who is mad you’re not watching it or “Modern Family,” then let me quickly describe it. Glee is a comedy/drama/musical centered on a glee club at a high school. Despite leaning heavily on “theme episodes,” they often tackle tough social issues in some surprising ways. It’s blown up in the last year. So much so, that bands who initially refused to let them use their music have come around. When I tweeted that Coldplay said no to Glee, people told me that was because Coldplay had too much “integrity.” Then the ratings exploded and Coldplay apologized to Glee and asked them to use their music.

But what I keep noticing is that there are two popular Christian reactions to Glee:

1. You’ve got to watch it!

In church on Sunday a friend described to me some of the Christian undertones and discussion that often peppers the script of Glee. Then someone else tweeted me and implored me to not only watch it, but write about it. “It’s awesome! You would be crazy not to be watching it!” That’s what some people tell me.

2. I can only assume that satan is the executive producer of Glee.

Worst show ever. In addition to butchering Journey songs, they’re pushing a really horrible agenda on us. It’s garbage. I would sooner slow dance with the Golden Compass or share a sleeping bag with a bunch of Harry Potter books. I hate that show and all Christians should.

There’s no middle ground. You hate it or you love it. Or so it would appear. I’ve not watched a whole season and don’t have a firm opinion on Glee. (I don’t love it as much as I love the new music from Mumford and Sons for instance or Alpha Rev.)

How about you though?

Do you watch Glee?

What’s your take?

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Comments

  1. says

    I absolutely love Glee and look forward to watching it every week- but I do have to say that I definitely have mixed feelings about last weeks episode (which was focused on praying to 'Grilled Cheesus', a grilled cheese sandwich). But let's just be honest, what's not to love about a high school singalong?!

    • Rev.Wren says

      I like Glee too. The most recent episode with "Cheesus" was good because of the unresolved tensions. I'm an associate pastor at a large Methodist Church and the "holy" and "unholy" moments of the show mirror much of what I see in my congregation. I think there's some value to the show for the mere fact that it can confront Christians with all the things that clutter our lives.

    • Erin says

      I agree, it was a little weird at first with the sandwich, but I think the writers did a great job in the end of making the show not biased towards or against religions (including Christianity). In the end, Finn realized that the grilled cheese was just a sandwich, but other people like Kurt and Sue realized that not all religion is bad or stupid.

      PS I LOVE Glee!! It's a total guilty pleasure but I think they do some kick-butt covers of a lot of tunes. :)

    • says

      I was only ambivalent at first, when I wasn't sure what direction they were going with the episode. By the end, I just wanted to hug everyone. I thought the episode was handled incredibly well, and that opinion was shared by my two friends who watched it with me- one of whom is an atheist, and one is an agnostic. We have watched a lot of media together, and it is so so rare that we find something that addresses all our belief systems and does so in a respectful manner all around.

      I'll be honest, I found Finn's devotion to Grilled Cheesus hilarious, and I loved that it was Puck, of all people, who was used to point out how selfish his motives were. It was just a really well-done episode with an open and honest discussion of faith.

      That opinion having been made known, I'm going to go listen to Artie singing "Stronger."

    • Idhrendur says

      I thought Grilled Cheesus was strange, too, but later I recognized the genius of it. It allowed them to have someone with a shallow faith lose their faith (appropriately) and demonstrate that kind of struggle while hanging a lampshade on the fact that it was a strawman faith.

      Meanwhile, the Christian with a strong faith just kept on having a strong faith. And loving her friend no matter his hostility. Which was excellent.

  2. Megan says

    I watch Glee..much to the horror of my Mom. (Hi, Mom! I know you're reading this!!!) But I was a show choir geek in high school so I love the fun of the music. I was not all that trilled with the Grilled Cheese-us episode last week. It was like being preached at to not preach at people.

    • LJS says

      I love Glee and I loved the grilled cheesus episode. I laughed, I cried, I was shocked and disturbed. I was offended and deeply moved. They showed how confusing faith can be at times, and if anyone would say they have never doubted, never been confused, I don't know where they live, but it's not in reality. Did they get the theology right? Of course not, it's Glee, not Pat Robertson! (Not that I think Pat's got it right…) It's entertainment that tries to touch on issues people face, but it's not a serious show. Enjoy it for what it is. Or don't – go watch reruns of Gilligan's Island or something.

      • says

        Or "Big Bang Theory". Or "Rules of Engagement". Or "30 Rock". Or any of the other actually funny shows out there. ;)

        To be serious for a moment, I think this is another part of why I'm hesitant. It strikes me as quite…soap opera-y, and I'm not a huge fan of soap operas.

        • Jen says

          It's sort of soap-opery at times, but it does have some really witty dialogue. Especially any of Sue Sylvester's rants….they are brilliant.

  3. says

    Not a fan. It's not for the controversial topics, but I don't like musicals…especially on television, because now you have music AND commercials to get in the way of the script. But wait–this is Glee–there is no script. I just prefer when Queen sings their songs.

  4. says

    it's brilliant. of course that's in my never humble opinion. funny, well written, thoughtful and opens up dialogue about social issues with my 12 year old.

    grilled cheesus is possibly my favorite episode to date.

    still a hold out on Modern Family though. haven't seen it just because people tell me i should. i'm edgy like that.

  5. says

    I enjoy watching it – it's all I can do to not get up and dance along with the cast. Then again, I wish church would build me a Worship Go Go Dancing Platform.

    Watching the premiere was painful, though. How they treated Biest made me so sad. I used to play a sousaphone in the marching band, so I get the different thing.

    But all in all, I like the underlying search for Grace, which I think is the true bottom line of the show. Everyone just wants to be protected and sanctified by somebody's favor….

    • LJS says

      But they redeemed themselves about Biest. You have to have tension. I'm sorry you had that experience, I was a "nerd" with straight A's and was pretty much in the same boat. :-)

      • says

        True, they did redeem themselves with Biest. It was just so sad to watch!

        And, well, I certainly survived the tuba gig and have funny stories to boot! It is interesting, though, to hear people's reactions when you cross invisible gender lines. A girl playing a tuba? Huh?

        • Cindy_A says

          In my marching band we had 3 girl tuba players, all standing tall at about 5 feet. :)

          I played mellophone. Go band!

  6. says

    I just can't watch Glee. I don't enjoy it. I WANT to enjoy it. I just can't. I've tried more than once, but every time, they're so overt with the social agenda stuff that it turns me off.

    But, before I get on a high horse, I love House. And House is not a saint.

    Part of me wants to figure out why there is this personal discrepancy, but I'd have to watch more Glee to figure it out. It's not worth that.

    • says

      I haven't seen Glee, but I -have- seen house. And, from all the comments here, may I suggest that the reason is because Glee tries a little too hard to be about social issues while House doesn't really try to be anything like that.

      I like shows where the characters and storylines feel natural, as opposed to being contrived solely for a particular political or social agenda.

    • Sara says

      Eyvonne- totally agree with you!! I have kids and I just can't let them watch it and I feel bad watching it, but I do love House! It is one of the only shows I watch, but I watch it late at night (because of the kids). I wonder what Jesus would think of it? Who knows….something we all have to work through.

      • says

        Part of the reason I love House so is because of the issues they discuss. Does "Everybody lie" as House asserts? House is adamant in his belief that there isn't a God, but in that unbelief he raises good questions, challenging questions. He's a thinker, albeit a tormented thinker.

        The thing I love most is that the show hasn't glorified the life of a drug addict. They've dealt with it straight on and shown that life leads to pain. The episode where he finally ends up in a psychiatric hospital is called "Broken". I wish they'd deal with extra-marital sex in the same way, but that's asking for too much I think.

  7. Dani says

    Glee is sort of the highlight of my week. And I'm not going to say it's because of the Christian undertones (though I suppose there could be some, if you are dead set on finding them in order to justify watching a show about teenage drama and unrealistic high school talent) but I watch Glee because the music is incredible! I resent that "butchering Journey" thing. While Journey's version is better, the Glee version made teens go out and look up Journey's songs, opening us to a whole new world of music :)

    • says

      Someone (famous I mean) calls it the Babylonian Idiot Box. Another calls it a General Time Waster. :o)

      We do occasionally watch old tv series, currently working on Season 1 of the Waltons, and we do watch movies.

      But, haven't watched regular tv for 12 years and haven't been willing to spend the money (what would Dave think about our much smaller debt snowball?!?!) to get cable, so we are still not watchers.

      We would love, however, to be able to watch college football and basketball and pro baseball anytime without the rest of the package.

      PS – This list has only two items. That is neither spiritual nor holy. What were you thinking? You couldn't come up with the holy trinity of responses to Glee?

    • KMR says

      Amen. I've caught Glee a couple of times and have enjoyed it when I do but it was always by accident. I hardly ever watch prime time.

    • SkagitMomma says

      My hubby and I have been cable free for over 3 years and wouldn't go back. Too much garbage available, and I've not been a fan of sydicated comedies since Happy Days and Laverne & Shirley. I do wish we could pick and choose our own cable (History Channel, AMC, and Discovery anyone?), but we would not do network. We do watch 24 and Lost AFTER the season is over on DVD. Makes a nice way to spend those long winter nights. No commercials, ahhhh.
      Plus, isn't Glee just like a never-endeing High School Musical??

    • says

      Yes, that would be me too (third reaction). I would be happy to get rid of the single TV set we own, not just because I find most programming offensive, but because I think it's a huge waste of time.

      • Tib says

        Thats what gets me is the time spent….Igrew up without tv and when I got married my husband was horrified that we wouldn't have cable. So we did, for about a year. After that, we got rid of it because I felt like it was consuming my life. At one point I realized I was watching 12 or 14 hours a week. Hours I could have been furthering my education, nurturing my marriage or making blanket forts with my nephews. We do watch tv shows when they are on DVD, but it's a deliberate decision. There's no turning on the tv to "see what's on".

    • Shannon says

      I know what you mean! I am a self-diagnosed TV addict, so I gave up TV about a year and a half ago. Actually, I had stopped watching network TV (no real reason, just happened) long before that, so I am REALLY out of the loop about what shows people are watching. I do watch NCIS with my mom at her house. We've always bonded over TV shows together, so I'm happy to keep this one going. :)

      I kind of miss some of my cable channels though, the ones I enjoyed without ever over doing it. I wish the cable/satellite companies would offer an "a-la-carte" option, so I can just get the Food Network, Travel Channel, and History Channel without all the other stuff.

  8. Deriberry says

    I’m sitting in a hotel room getting ready for my best friends wedding and we have been jamming to the glee soundtrack for a few hours now!!! I love the show!!

  9. kati says

    I LOVE it, but I can see how much of my Christian friends would hate it.
    And you're right, I don't know of anyone that doesn't LOVE it or HATE it – there's no middle ground. :)

  10. Lauren says

    If I happen to catch it, I like it. I know the actors are the ones singing the songs, but I wish someone would teach them to lip-sync properly. It throws me off.

    Can I be in the so-so category?

  11. says

    Ooh, I love glee. I was the picked on kid in band and choir and I lvoe singing along to the songs each week, so I totally get it. I was amazed at how they addressed the Jesus storyline this week. It was mroe balanced than I thought it'd be.

  12. Jayson says

    No middle ground? Then where am I? I've watched it a few times and found it entertaining. I'm not DVR'ing it or anything. Frankly, I don't even know what night or what time it's on. But when I happen to catch it, I smile. If that's not middle ground I don't know what is.

    Meh.

  13. LauraT99 says

    Watched one time, just to see what the fuss was about. The music was good, but the underlying message was against what the Bible teaches. (It was the episode where one of the boys and his dad come to terms with the boy being "different.") It's not a show for me.

    • jdens says

      This was the one where Kurt tells his dad he's gay (with some trepidation) and his sweetly macho father loves him anyway? How is this in discord with Christian principles?

        • Matt T. says

          I'm going to try a little perception-checking here. Since you responded directly to jdens, who said, "This was the one where Kurt tells his dad he's gay (with some trepidation) and his sweetly macho father loves him anyway? How is this in discord with Christian principles?"
          The fact that you seem to have contradicted him implies to me that you believe that loving gay people anyway is NOT in accord with Christian principles. Is this accurate?
          If so, read the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and pray and ask God what they mean.

          • pbj says

            Don't thinking anyone was talking about the dad's response

            Laura T99 was referencing the homosexuality aspect

            I was simply pointing out that's just one part

            Counter Biblical:
            attitude toward divorce/adultery
            attitude toward abstinence and keeping sex within marriage
            and that's based off of the 20 minutes I've watched plus some commercials

            definitely many redeeming moments as well
            football playing defending the kid (in a wheelchair I think) being picked on by his teammates
            loving people and not being cliquish
            the new commercials that are all about serving others

            but I'm not going to replace teaching the Bible to my youth group with watching episodes of Glee

            The content might not be any worse than your average tv show but the agenda has been pretty blatant in the parts I've seen…nothing new to Hollywood (or Burbank which is the tv capitol) though

          • Matt T. says

            I was responding to the person who posted under the name Read the Bible. I'm not disagreeing with anyone's right to think that homosexuality is wrong, but his/her comment implies to me that loving homosexuals anyway is wrong. And I have all kinds of problems with that statement.

          • says

            A PARENT ACCEPTING A GAY CHILD IS WRONG. Try the scriptures where parents are to teach their children right and wrong and to honor God. And the scriptures that say to win a brother back from his sin. THAT IS LOVE. Pretending "gay is OK" is not God, it is not in the Bible. God himself describes homosexuality as "an abomination" because it is NOT adultery or fornication – which operate in the realm of natural relations. Homosexuality is all out rebellion to the natural way God created men and women to be in relation. And a nation given over to it is under judgement – also in the gospels and new testament. I'm sick of the church playing with sin and laughing at Will and Grace with Glee and then justifying it because "Grace" is in it. God alone is good.

            Let's all be accepting of the adulterers, are you OK with your wife or your husband cheating on you and telling you he was just born that way and you should just accept him that way? How about if this character were a pedifile and he was "just born that way"? Should his dad accept him then?

          • jdens says

            I disagree with this on so many levels, but I'll start with the easiest. Comparing homosexuality to adultery and paedophilia is unacceptable. Even if you believe that homosexuality is forbidden by Scriptures, logically, they are not at all parallel. Adultery and paedophilia both involve betrayal or exploitation of another. Adult, consensual same-sex relationships harm no one, and the only reason I can see to condemn them is your belief that they are biblically banned.

          • Discussions says

            I haven't made up my mind about whether homosexual acts are biblically sinful, but I gotta say, I'm so tired of the "you can't compare homosexuality to anything" argument. Whether it's murder, pedophelia or taking a stick of candy from the store, sin is sin, no matter who thinks it hurts whom. People who believe homosexual acts are sinful are not saying they're logically equivalent to murder or whatever when they compare them; they're simply trying to say they're sin, like any other sin, despite how our culture pressures people to make exceptions for certain ones. Gasping and saying "So you're comparing homosexuals to MURDERERS???" is just not productive or logical in its own right. (Not saying that you did that, jdens; you were more level-headed; I've just seen that type of reaction.)

          • jdens says

            Discussions, I hear what you’re saying, but one of the problems I have with that line of thinking is that from people who espouse this view, I don’t think I’ve ever heard them compare homosexuality to taking God's name in vain, or not keeping the Sabbath, or envy. Nope, they go straight to adultery, murder, and in this case, child abuse. So rather than using the “all sins are equal” line to provoke humility in those who would accuse and condemn (as Matt T does below), it’s used to vilify the Other. And, of course, I haven’t seen anyone complaining about pop culture encouraging a break-the-Sabbath agenda. So it seems to me that even those who think “sin is sin” and there should be no discrimination among them, really do discriminate in their own minds.

            Secondly, I would question the “all sins are equal” assertion (but with much respect for anyone who upholds it). In the sense that all sins separate you to some extent from God, that all sins result in a death of some sort—a loss of who we are/who we’re meant to be–that all sins are equally forgivable, yes, I agree. But I don’t think either the Old or New Testament really supports that all laws are equal in importance, and that therefore all breakings of the law are equally grave. Common sense as well would tell you that your momentary feeling of envy for your neighbour’s new car is not comparable to having sexually molested a child. You don’t even need a millstone-round-the-neck analogy for that one. (I just re-read your comment, and I may be assuming the "all sin is equal" stance. Forgive me if I've misinterpreted.)

            But those are my immediate reactions. I really do appreciate your input.

          • jdens says

            “they're simply trying to say they're sin, like any other sin, despite how our culture pressures people to make exceptions for certain ones.”

            This was another part of your comment I’d like to respond to, simply because when we talk about homosexuality in the context of the wider culture, I feel like it muddies the waters to talk about it in terms of sin. I don’t think our culture pressures us to make exceptions for certain sins, simply because I don’t think society as a whole categorises behaviour in those terms. Our society forms values based on what is perceived as harmful or beneficial to our welfare as individuals and as a group, not in terms of what is sinful or not. So when we’re talking about the values that a show like Glee supports, I don’t think it’s fair to compare homosexuality to adultery or paedophilia for the reasons I stated above. To me, it’s an entirely different argument, then, to talk about its status within a Christian code of conduct. As you may have gathered, I tend to align with the “not sinful” view, but I understand how others could reach a different conclusion, and I’m respectful of that as long as it is not expressed in unloving ways.

          • jdens says

            Next easiest: You seem to imply that homosexuality is even worse than adultery or fornication because it's not "in the realm of natural relations". I believe that was Paul's argument, too, or at least what many interpret his position to be. Fortunately, scientific observation has come a long way, and we now know that homosexual behaviour occurs in a LOT of other animals. Now, I am in no way suggesting we model human morality on what happens in the rest of the animal kingdom, but the "unnatural" argument just doesn't work anymore.

          • KMR says

            Third point. Let me simply quote you what love is according to the Bible.

            I Corinthinians 13, 4-8 : Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.

            Please explain how rejecting a child who is gay fits the description of demonstrating love according to the scriptures. I thank God He has never rejected me for my sin as you so fervently preach that we should do to others.

          • Matt T. says

            Fine. Decision time, then.

            According to your post, one of the following things must be true:

            1. The parts of the Bible where it says that all sin is equal in the eyes of the Lord are not accurate. Therefore, the Bible is not accurate.
            2. Those parts of the Bible are accurate, and your attitude towards gays is fundamentally and provably wrong.

            You must believe that one of these two things is true. Choose wisely.

          • Lindsay B says

            I'm curious- biblically speaking, what is it that YOU would do with your homosexual child?

          • jdens says

            Lindsay B, I realise this was directed at Matt T, but may I answer this question, too? I'm not a parent, yet, but I hope I would have the grace to make sure all my children knew there was nothing they could do or be that could make their parents or God not love them. I hope I would also instill in them a love and respect for themselves, their bodies, and for physical intimacy as an expression of love that belongs in a committed, monogamous relationship.
            Again, not trying to answer for Matt T, but that's the kind of parent I hope I'd be.

          • Matt T. says

            The simplest way to answer this question would be to turn it back–what do you do with the fact that your children (assuming you have them) are also sinners who occasionally do really terrible things?
            It's the same answer as jdens, really. It's more important to me to make sure any children I might have in the future grow up to be loving of others in the name of Christ anyway.
            More specifically, the fact alone that I'm debating whether or not homosexuality actually IS immoral makes it impossible for me to answer that. But it's worth mentioning that I lean more and more towards the side of it's not every day.

          • jdens says

            OK, at the risk of piling on, I just want to address one last point, possibly the most important one, but the most difficult, too. It seems to lie at the heart of a lot of these kinds of debates. It's how we appeal to the Bible as an authority. When you say, "God himself describes homosexuality as 'an abomination'", you are treating the Bible in general and Leviticus in particular in a way that completely bypasses the human component.

            I remember in the first session of a hermeneutics class, a professor asked us, "Why didn't God physically write out the Bible once for all time and hand it out to us? I mean, God's not illiterate, right?" His point was that if we are to take the Scriptures seriously, we have to take its human context seriously, too. I'm not here to argue about divine inspiration, but these texts were physically written by humans confined to a particular space and time, just like the rest of us. The book of Leviticus is filled with codes for living that set them apart from other peoples. Unless you are also against shaving and eating non-kosher foods and in favour of stoning, you can't reasonably use that verse (which, by the way, only describes male sex) as a blanket proscription against homosexuality.

            Finally, regarding the use of the English word "abomination", I'm quoting from a newspaper artical from the Guardian:

            "According to Leviticus 18:22: 'You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.' But Daniel Karslake, director of For the Bible Tells Me So, says the word 'abomination' comes from the Hebrew word 'to'evah', meaning contrary to ritual. 'Leviticus was the holiness code, designed to further the tribe of the Jewish nation. Which is why it didn't look very kindly on men having sex with men, since sex was needed for procreation.' Nothing, in short, about divine judgement."

  14. Jonathandkeck says

    Glee is not for me. But it is most definitely not inspired by the wiles of that old nefarious snaggletoothed beast. I thought that this sort of claim was over. I remember when the Harry Potter thing went down and everyone in the church was freaking out on a lady for letting her kids partake of such praise of demonic. But it is still alive. In fact, unfortunate as it is, anything produced by culture can only have been birthed form the unholy union of theDevil and evil human hearts. Such is the case with glee—the sirens songs calling innocent people to hell. Or so I have been told.
    http://www.jonathandkeck.com

  15. Drew says

    I watch Glee every week, and I love it. As a worship leader and a pastor I have absolutely not problem with the show. I say this in part, because all 4 years of my High School experience I was a Gleek!

    For those that say they are pushing a "social agenda" on us… Wake up! I think that I had every "type" of character on that show in my High School Show Choir, and as Christians we should not be afraid of the "D" word… Diversity – I sure know Jesus wasn't.

    Between all the drama, comedy and fights between Sue, Mr. Shue and now Biest, there is always a real lesson and moral of the story.

    LOVE IT!

  16. cece says

    i've seen it, i will definitely never ever call myself a "gleek" even if i become a fan, but i don't necessarily hate it. i do hate everyone squealing about it, though.

    • revowens says

      I really enjoyed Joan of Arcadia and was sorry to see it pulled. It seems to me that the closer shows on mainstream network TV get to actually being wholesome or Godly, the more likely they are to get pulled.

      As far as Glee goes, I am the odd person that neither loves it nor hates it. I was in show choir in high school. I love listening to the music and often find that the show does a better job than the originals. On the other hand, I dislike how glibly they treat some issues. Yes, they reflect on them, but almost universally come down on the wrong side of the fence in their conclusions (on the rare case they have any). My wife loves it, so when it is on, it is watched. I will watch it on Hulu when I miss it to see if the music was any good. Honestly, though, like so many other prime time shows, the morality of it just seems to be a turn off.

      I don't love it. I don't hate it. I will take it or leave it. I would rather watch that than all the CSI, 24, Law & Order, House type of shows which glorify and turn into entertainment the suffering, pain, and death that people experience.

  17. rcase89 says

    I love Glee!! I have 3 of their cds and I am going as "Rachel" for my college group Halloween party. [We are both Jewish.] haha.

  18. says

    Glee is a guilty pleasure, as it exposed me to music I haven't listened to before, or have listened to, but not in a really long time. The Britney episode was quite disturbing though. I couldn't watch it all. I've never really listened to her or watched her videos, except via the Glee interpretation. Um, ew. gross. Really? So.freakin.nasty.

    • Common Household Mom says

      I agree. I don't necessarily object to Glee. I don't watch it, but others in my family do. I came in the room just when they were presenting a song on the Britney episode. Thinly veiled p0rnography, in my opinion. As is a lot of prime-time TV.

  19. says

    Just the latest example of using entertainment to mask an agenda. Nothing new, but I can’t stand anything like that. Wish my friends could see through it.

  20. says

    I am torn actually, for different reasons…why is it that it is now cool to be in a "show choir"? I would have been so popular if Glee had been around when I was in high school….I could kill some "show choir" covers like the really choral version of Whitney Houston's "I Will Always Love You"..I could dance, sing, and overact…a true triple threat. But back then, bc I wasn't on the "wrastling team" (as pronounced by my principle) or the football team, I was bit of a music geek….so my reasons for dislike are more for jealously and being overwhelmed by thoughts of what could have been (imagining me singing Wham's "Jitterbug" and it actually being applauded instead of mocked…)

  21. Barbara H. says

    I like the show tunes and the quirky characters. I don't see how anyone can see underlying Christian themes, though. The main thing I don't like about it is the overt sexual content. As one example, there was one episode last year when a girl who visited the "celibacy club" for the first time had a little speech about how they weren't meant to be celibate.Plus the themes are all a little too PC. But it has enough that I like about it that I am still watching it.

  22. Jenny says

    I am a youth pastor and I watch Glee! I really thought the "Grilled Cheesus" episode was well done. It is providing endless conversation opportunities. What I like about it is that there was just as much "anti-religious" dialogue and there was "pro-religious" dialogue. It also didn't wrap everything up in a neat little explainable package. That's the way the world is now. The episode was a great way to get us thinking about our faith and beliefs and how we practice and explore them in today's world. I like the fact that it conveyed the mystery of God and that none of us really know the answers to the big questions.

  23. says

    I don't watch Glee so I don't have an opinion about it – however, I did want to chime in simply to see that I totally agree that Mariah Carey's Christmas album is worthy of "double rainbow strength awe and wonder"! Loved your lab at Catalyst, particularly the part about making room in the story you're telling for people to tell their story.

    • NateTheTech says

      Cop Rock….from the mind of yet another satan worshiper (according to Donald Wildmon's AFA Journal), Steven Bochco, who allowed America to see Dennis Franz's a** on NYPD Blue. I love me some Cop Rock. Gimme more COP ROCK!!!!

  24. says

    Rather than rehash a blog entry that I made after last week's episode, I'm just going to be bold and post a link: http://brendasbrainchild.blogspot.com/2010/10/god….

    I was in both choir and drama club in high school, and in college I was a theatre major. My college choir director is one of my favorite people ever. So for those reasons alone, I have to give Glee props for trying something different artistically.

  25. says

    I take umbrage at the idea that Glee haters are in the same category of those who saw Harry Potter as a gateway to the occult. I don’t mind that it discusses social issues and has a positive view of homosexuality – that I even support!

    I just think it’s a terrible show. The “covers” are unoriginal (the only good covers are ones that add something new to the songs, create a new arrangement, or make me think about the songs in the new way. The Glee covers do nothing of the sort.). And the drama is overblown, amateurish, and just plain ridiculous. Many of the actors can’t act very well. The story lines seem created to weakly string together a number of musical covers, rather than just letting the story be told and the music slipping in naturally (as good musicals do [I submit Chicago, The Producers, Moulin Rouge, and Evita as examples of this]).

    I object to it not on a social issues level, but on an artistic level. It’s just not good.

    Modern Family on the other hand? Brilliant. Definitely one of the best comedies on TV.

  26. says

    I respectfully disagree. I walk the middle ground of never watching the show. I hear everyone go on and on about it but I just don't have time for another TV show. As it is I have to chose which will record on my DVR, Sophie's Choice or Shindler's List (anyone get the obscure Simpson's reference?)

    See how simple it is to walk the fence on this one.

    • says

      I actually have taped it several times and tried to watch it all the way through but I'm just not a big fan of musicials to start with, and the "wait, I'll sing it" thing gets old really fast. I do think they do great choir arrangements of songs. I did watch most of last week's "grill cheesus" episode and thought it was pretty thoughtfully done. I'm just not a fan of that whole format.

  27. Beccy Blann says

    Love Mariah Carey's Christmas album, and I don't understand why not everyone does.

    Hate Glee. I watched the first season, and didn't really like it, but kept watching it, hoping it would get better. Nope.

  28. says

    I must say I was a closet gleek the first season. As it seems, when I show seem to arise to the top it has to become more culturally relevant. What ever that may mean when it comes to mainstream media. I have only seen one episode of season two. It is good. I was in "Show Choir" or "Glee Club" and I had a blast. By the way if I heard schools like Glee perform they would get first in every competition. Any way. Good show… It does have good discussion but I would not recommend it for young people. Any how thanks for the post.

  29. says

    I think it's a great TV show, but I do get a little wary when Christians start taking their life lessons from it.

    The 'God' episode was painful to watch, but it did include most of the major stereotypes, though until that point I find it odd that God was never a defining issue for anyone. I mean, if you're going to accurately portray a Christian character, I'd like to see some consistency in their morality.

    OH WAIT. They WERE being accurate.

    I've already seen Glee sermon illustrations. Anyone else?

  30. says

    I don't know where my comment went! It appears to have disappeared into the bowels of the interwebs.

    I hate Glee on an artistic level, not a social one. I'm not against the themes or anything, I just think they're poorly done. Weak storylines strung together by musical numbers – the entire point seems to be a "look at us and the covers we can do." But the covers aren't all that great – there are maybe one or two shining examples in a season, but overall, I find them to be derivative, so-so covers that don't add anything new to the art of the song. I mean, look at what Across the Universe did with Beatles covers, and you will know what a good cover is. Wait, scratch that – just listen to Johnny Cash's cover of "Hurt," and that will give you a clue of what a cover should be. A cover shouldn't be a note for note "this is just a different voice singing it" rendition. It should take the song and turn it into something new. Glee fails in that miserably in every episode.

    You know it's a bad show when it's hard to even watch the Neil Patrick Harris episode, and that man is God's gift to musicals. And even he couldn't save it.

    • says

      *takes your thoughts into consideration*

      I may watch the episode with NPH in it, just to give it a chance…but that's all I'm giving it. If I'm wincing more than I'm loving, then it's probably not for me.

      • says

        That's the only episode I watched, and I'm happy with that. :D

        Hearing NPH hit that high note at the end of "Dream On" made me wheel back in my chair. He's so good.

  31. Shana says

    Love Glee!
    It gives us a great opportunity to talk with our teenage son about common social issues and our faith.
    Our entire family is hooked.
    Plus – Sue Sylvester says the things we are all thinking – sometimes.

  32. rongeyer says

    I wish they wouldn't so predictably (and unnecessarily) descend into trash. Makes an otherwise fun show a risky choice not worth making.

  33. says

    i love glee for the music and dislike glee for the topics. but the topics tend to be utterly contrived for the purpose of fitting in songs, so it's easy to not take them too seriously. the music is just amazing and fun! and one of the cheerleaders is so freaking hilarious – i'm at the point where she can literally say anything and it will crack me up.

  34. 3rdCulture says

    I would be your middle-grounder… I neither love it nor hate it. Am I entertained when I watch it? Sure. But as with anything and everything you have to watch with a filter. It is a secular show therefore will have secular views. There are good lessons, lessons that should be already known & practiced by Christians and there are some not so good messages that are contrary to the Christian faith. So I watch it, when I watch it, for the entertainment value and switch to something else when it goes from being a talent showcase to being preachy in the "world" message.

  35. JustSayin' says

    Following the last episode of Glee I started reading some of my friends comments on Facebook. I knew that was not a good idea but I did it anyway. Scathing reviews, nasty comments and judgmental attitudes. Do I was someone worshiping or praying to a Grilled Cheesus … No. Do I think that it was funny . . . Yes. Here is my point.
    Don't judge Glee based on Christian principles or ethics. It is going to fail you. Also don't say that that last episode was so horrific and then laugh in you next post about something on Modern Family. That show is based on trying to get us to all be ok with what Modern family means, Divorce, poor parenting, homosexuality etc. I am not blasting that show either. TAKE THEM FOR WHAT THEY ARE . . . Someone didn't bring a Grilled Cheesus to church and ask you to pray for its healing power!
    Name a show other then Touched by an Angel (I just feel asleep typing that show title) that is proposing any type of Christian principles in the last 20 years on network television. If you watch it … Watch it! Don't get on your soap box because it is offensive . . . Its always going to be offensive, edgy and anti-christian. I guess we should just all watch Fox News and sing Kumbaya with Glenn Beck . . . Who is not even a Christian. . . I guess close enough for those of you that judge based on what perception is.
    Why do we feel that one "sin show" is worse then another "sin show"? Hypocrites!

    • verity3 says

      I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I think, though, that people have strong reactions *against* the show for the same reason that other people have strong reactions *for* the show: it's trendy.

      And people have stronger negative feelings for something when they feel forced to interact with it. Because their friends want them to, because their kid likes it, or because it's all over the pop culture and they want to be in the know. Particularly if they try it only so they can criticize it with more authority.

      It's tricky managing the tension between filtering the "bad" and opening your heart to the "good."

      • Matt T. says

        I would take it a step farther and say don't just filter out the bad, use it to find the good. You have to be pretty artistically attuned to pull that off, but it's possible.

        Example–I watched the movie "District 9" last year and loved it to pieces. It is not what most people would call a Christian movie, and frankly, I would probably get speeches from certain people I know if they found out I watched it. It's really violent, has somewhere along the lines of 150+ f-words, and the main character is pretty much entirely selfish and unlikable up to around the last five minutes or so. But it got me going on some really interesting dialogues about human hatred, how it works in cycles, and how to identify and change it in my own life, so it was ultimately a beneficial and spiritually gratifying experience. And part of that actually required some of the violence and the selfish characters. Without them, I don't think it would've had that effect on me.

        Anyway, see what I mean? I don't know if it applies to "Glee," because I haven't watched it. Mostly because the commercials make it look like something that's seriously not my thing.

        • verity3 says

          Agreed. There's no redemption without the need for redemption. When I say "filter the bad," I don't mean filter it *out*. I guess what I mean is question it.

          And I agree with your take on "District 9." Great movie.

    • Gina952 says

      I was with you until you started getting all judgmental in the last few sentences. People have different reasons for liking or disliking things. It's not always because they're marching in lockstep with Fox News.

      • JustSayin says

        Yea Gina judgmental was what I was being . . . Please, just the fact that you said Fox news was the moment you saw judgment means you are hooked on it and Glenn Beck. Enjoy your Bubble.

          • JustSayin says

            My mistake. I apologize that I may have offended you by stating that you watched Glenn Beck. That might have been judgmental. However, not denying the Fox comment leads me to believe you took offense to it. So I'm sorry but please be clear. . . I wasn't judging Fox News or Glenn Beck. I was stating that those who walk s you say "lockstep" with anything polarizing is dangerous!

  36. lettner says

    I've tried twice to get into it, the season premieres of both seasons, but my wife & I can't stand the show. My dad thinks the show is the best thing since the invention of the TV, but the show is too much like a teenage soap opera with so-so music. I rather listen to the original than a choir version of the song. So I'm in the "Hate Glee" camp.

  37. says

    Love Glee! Fun characters, great music and Matt Morrison! What more could you want? I could do with a little less Rachel singing and I don't look for Christian themes in secular shows.

  38. paul says

    I don't watch Glee but I don't hate it. Despite being a Christmas music fanatic I never listen to anything by Mariah Carey. Just not my style

  39. Julie R. says

    I have not seen it. I get a little scared around the beginning of the new seasons when the new shows start to come out. You see, I tend to find a show I love, I am faithful to watch when its on and recently I catch it online if I miss the original air time. The problem is this…. shows I fall in love with, have a nasty tendency to get canceled on me…then its 4 months of anti-anxiety meds while I wait for a summer season of shows I KNOW will be back… So…you all go ahead and enjoy Glee… if its still on in a few years, I'll rent the season discs and catch up….

    • says

      That happened to me and Kings! I absolutely fell in LOVE with that show, only to have it canceled after the first season because people couldn't keep up with it. Oh my goodness, a show that actually makes you think and engage in every episode? EGADS! *tear* So I totally get not wanting to fall in love with a new show. It is difficult to try to get into something new these days when most everything that isn't reality tv or racy or on the air for 10+ years (CSI, Law & Order anyone…) isn't going to make it.

  40. says

    I watch it pretty regularly, and I loved the Grilled Cheesus episode, because it didn't tie things up with pretty little bows. Because really, how many high school kids wind up with things resolved perfectly?

    Some of the episodes i don't care for, and I do kind of get tired of watching Lea Michele look like she's trying to pass a kidney stone when she sings, but it's cute, it's fun and I like the music.

    • Thea says

      I almost snorted hot tomato soup out my nose at that one. And I really needed a laugh today. I marvel at Lea's facial expressions while singing. Can you imagine how she'd look while doing Away in a Manger or Silent Night?

  41. susie says

    Is not watching TV a sign of higher intelligence or a higher moral ground? Do you also not watch movies? Let's be honest people. What you choose to watch should be done with moderation. Instead of snobbishly claiming you boycott TV, which is something many people enjoy, why don't you actually discuss the point of this post: the good and bad of Glee? The show, Glee is very creative and talented. Glee reinforces the issues in my life I am passionate about. It causes me to focus on my own faith, dreams, failures, and complicated events I deal with. The latest episode dealt with God, homosexuality, and true friendships. It was amazing and I cried with a new awareness of hope and love for God and people. The music is amazing and continually fills my soul. So, ya, Glee is for ME!

    • Matt T. says

      "An individual Christian may see fit to give up all sorts of things for special reasons – marriage, or meat, or beer, or cinema; but the moment he starts saying the things are bad in themselves, or looking down his nose at other people who do use them, he has taken the wrong turning." -C.S. Lewis

      So yeah, anyone who's thinking, "I gave up TV and they didn't, na na na na, sinners," is wrong. But I'd say the reverse is also true–if someone else sees fit to give something up, they're as worthy of our respect as we are of theirs.

  42. csippy says

    Watch it! I absolutely LOVE the show. I watched the pilot when it first premiered after American idol last year and have been hooked ever since. I was a musical theater nerd from 1st grade on, and so I love it. :)

    And really, if you like Newsies (which based on previous posts we all know you do!), I think you would enjoy Glee. :)

  43. says

    My husband's take is that anything resembling "High School Musical" can't be good. He's never watched HSM, nor any of Glee, but is certain he wouldn't like it.

    I saw a snippet where they did a Lady Gaga song, and I was immediately turned off. I like Lady Gaga. I do -not- like amateurs singing Lady Gaga.

    Also, I hate being told "Oh it's the most awesome show EVAR!!!11" Maybe if it was less popular I'd give it a chance, but anything that's super-popular, especially with the self-proclaimed artsy crowd*, gives me the willies.

    My opinion has zip to do with a religious stance.

    *It should be noted that the self-proclaimed artsy crowd and the ACTUAL artsy crowd aren't at all the same thing. The self-proclaimed artsy crowd likes things that they can brag about, as long as they're popular. The actual artsy crowd doesn't give a flying flip for popularity one way or the other.

    • Matt T. says

      Really? I always thought that something of the reverse was true–self-proclaimed artsy people like to shout to the world how they're into obscure movies and music and stuff, and truly artsy people just like stuff that's good.
      That's been my experience, anyway.

      • verity3 says

        Actually it sounds like you're both saying similar things.

        Self-proclaimed –>bragging
        Truly artsy–>appreciating the good regardless of popularity

        The latter doesn't preclude wanting to share it with the world, though :)

  44. says

    I love Glee, for the most part. The writers seem to have a not-so-Christian worldview, but are usually pretty good about at least giving a voice to the Christian viewpoint.

    More troubling for me is the fact that the writers of Glee seem to not really want their viewers to think and respond critically to the show. They seem to just want us to shut up and consume whatever they offer up for us. As thinking human beings, we should never ever to that, regardless of the source.

    • Trish says

      Agreed!! That and Whitney Houston’s “Joy to the World.” Both make me want to jump up and down and squeal “it’s Christmas! It’s Christmas!”

  45. Angie says

    I am definitely in the middle ground. I have watched it. I find it moderately entertaining, but it is not the capstone of my week.

  46. Samm_E says

    I am in fact one of the .1% that could take it or leave it. I have liked the ones I have watched, but I don't rush home on Tuesdays. Recently the teen group of my church were doing a special project. This meant they were in a building without a TV on a Tuesday night. (Gasp) I found it so funny that I must have seemed the same way when American Idol first showed. :-)

  47. Thea says

    With the slight exception of last week's "religious" episode which I thought started out pretty sadly but ended up on a semi-positive note, I have nothing but love for GLEE. Mostly because I was a band dork in HS and the Choral groups only open to a select few that the director liked (ie no one in band). I want to live in a world where we sing and dance all through the day and with wind machines. All of the cast is so talented. It's amazing how well they do. Fav songs so far: rendetion of "Pokerface" with Rachel and her mom and "Over the Rainbow" with Mark Salling. Just beautiful.

  48. says

    I think the show is brilliant! It's entertaining and funny. Old and young alike are watching the show.

    It's also a conduit for conversations between parents, grandparents and teens about social issues. We've all been there. I think most of us can relate to being a loser in high school. It reminds me of when I was a teen and I can be a better parent to my teen if I remember how it feels. I think we tend to forget how hard high school was.

    Everything can be used for the Glory of God, even a secular TV show about a high school glee club.

  49. Natalie says

    I watch Glee every week. This season the drama has obviously escalated but seeeing and hearing them sing the songs they sing is worth it to me. I grew up on musicals like Bye Bye Birdie with Ann Margaret when she was around 18. I love musicals and will continue to watch Glee, it's a great show.

  50. says

    Glee is BONANZA of FANTASTICNESS!
    *Jazz Hands*

    Sure its got completely crazy and unrealistic story lines, but it uses those crazy stories to talk about things in a way that other shows aren't talking about them.

    And tell me who doesn't love Spontaneous Harmonized Choreography!?!?!

  51. amandakathryn says

    I used to "love it!" now I have mixed feelings, as do some others I have talked to. The first season was escapist fun, I mean the social agenda stuff seemed no worse than what you get anywhere else, but I don't know it has seemed to go in a weird direction lately. That Grilled Cheesus episode especially, it wasn't even entertaining. I feel like they are getting awkward because they really want to do serious "issues" now that the show is so popular, so I dont know it used to be a highlight of my week, but I may be tuning out pretty soon.

  52. Marilyn Jones says

    I love it! I haven't watched last week's episode yet because our internet is super slow and hulu won't load fast enough. But, I was in choir in high school, so I can relate. I think the cast is super talented and the writing is clever most of the time. I think the issues that it presents are very timely and things that the church needs to struggle with, but they are not protrayed in a very real way most of the time. I don't know many teens who would go to school dressed in Lady Gaga get-up.

    On another note, I'm a youth minister and none of my kids like it… :(

  53. says

    I think Glee is a great TV show, and it actually the only one in a few years that I have wanted to watch regularly. Apart from the music, which is always amazing (even if I don't like a particular song, I can tell that the cast and the musical producers are very, very talented), I actually do also enjoy the plotlines and the message it puts out there. So what if it's melodramatic and a bit over the top? Every high schooler thinks that their lives and the problems they deal with are the World's Most Important, and Glee's characters express that perfectly. The exaggeration is realistic, to put it paradoxically.

    Aside from that, yes, there will definitely be times when people (Christian or not) won't agree with what they believe is Glee's agenda, but why hate a television show just because the values it appears to uphold don't line up exactly with your own? Does it make sense to dislike or ignore people whose values don't line up exactly with our own? In defense of Glee's message, I'd say that it doesn't preach against Christianity so much as it actually offers a fair balance of Christian, non-Christian, and it-doesn't-even-matter viewpoints.

    In the recent religion-themed episode ("Grilled Cheesus"), a whole slew of the glee club members were shocked and disappointed when Kurt, the gay character whose father had had a heart attack, announced that he didn't believe in God. But by the end of the episode, Kurt learned that allowing people of faith to pray for him wasn't evil, ignorant, or useless, and Kurt's friends learned that pushing their personal beliefs and practices into his life without his permission and not giving him space was not really what a good friend would do. Balance? Yes. Pro- or anti-Christian? Neither, really. Underneath it all, Glee is about the underdogs fighting in a tough world to be loved and accepted even if they never become popular or have magical happy endings a la High School Musical. And can't Christians resonate with that? Jesus was an underdog and an outcast, too.

    • Matt T. says

      In your description of that episode, I don't hear anything that sets off alarm bells. Actually, that makes me think, "Yes–someone getting it."
      Basically, the religious people in the show learned not to shove their beliefs into the gay kid's life, and the gay kid learned that religious people are not ignorant or evil?
      People, that's borderline my perfect world right there.

  54. Leanne says

    I loved the first season of "Glee" … this year though, the first three episodes (including the "exploration of faith" that the bloggerverse seems to be ecstatic about) have been pretty one-dimensional, character-wise. Sue Sylvester and Kurt seem to be the only two characters who've survived intact from last year….

  55. says

    My wife and I watch 2 shows. Glee and The Office. We love it. Funny thing is, when the series premiered, we were watching it with another couple from church. They were appalled the whole time, and we were laughing quietly. Haha.

    Watching this past week's "Grilled Cheesus" episode, I was curious how they would handle the topic of God. I think they did a wonderful job. It was realistic more than anything. They showcased everyone's different view and opinion, gave detail to people's struggle with not believing, and fed it all with some great truths.

    The highlight, though, was that Sue Sylvester's down syndrome sister possessed the greatest faith, saying "God doesn't make any mistakes. That's what I believe," and "I'll pray for you, Sue." I got teary-eyed. :' )

  56. Sarah says

    Glee is definitely a fun show to watch, and you can't help but love the (usually) excellent music choice that they have. I think they tackle some issues from an interesting and very realistic way, but with that comes a less wholesome side (The Brittany episode for instance). I don't think it would be a show I would recommend as a Christian, but I can't help but enjoy it overall.

  57. Hey Now says

    I do love, Glee, but was uncomfortable with the grilled cheesus as well. Sue Sylvestor is the funniest character on tv in a long time.

  58. says

    I can understand why so many folks are drawn to Glee. In a sense there are some deeper things going on beneath the over-done teen melodrama crust and the peppy songs. For those who enjoy the songs and the sharp humor, it can be a breath of fresh air.

    I just don't get it. I'm not a fan of most songs they feature on the show, so I'm already inclined to fast-forward through half of each episode.

    It's kind of like Cold Comfort Farm. Cold Comfort Farm is one of the greatest books ever written in my opinion, but some of my closest friends and family members don't get it. The overdone literary style doesn't appeal to some readers in much the same way that I don't get the pop music and over-dramatic elements of Glee.

  59. verity3 says

    Have to say I only moderately like it. Good show, but not worth DVR-ing for me personally. (If I ever get a spare hour to watch something from the vault while my kid's not around, that time is allotted for "Bleach.")

    I get the appeal of musicals (and theatre in general) but it's not subtle enough to hold my interest for long. Though I find it more bearable on the small screen than the large, I prefer it on the live stage if at all. And as far as music goes, I gravitate to the kind that holds a tension between experimental and melodic, instrumental and vocal. (Indie Christian post-hardcore, anyone? Anyone? [crickets] *sigh*)

    That, and the fact that I'm still not over what network TV did to "Freaks and Geeks" ten years ago. :P

    • KMR says

      Now Freeks and Geeks was fantastic. I would totally watch network TV again if they would put something of that quality back on.

    • verity3 says

      And by the way, the best Christmas album of all time is "Happy Christmas." Puller. Plankeye. Good Switchfoot. 'Nuff said.

    • Matt T. says

      Indie Christian post-hardcore.

      Name me a band in this style, because it sounds wondrous from where I'm sitting.

      I kind of agree with you anyway. I don't have a musical preference, but it's generally towards stuff that's different and out-there enough that pop culture musicals don't sit well with me. I agree with your stance on musicals as well. Singing about what you're feeling generally just makes it seem silly and overdone to me.

      • verity3 says

        Puller – Closer Than You Think
        Dear Ephesus – The Consolation of Pianissimo
        Dumpster – See Through Me

        I may be using the term "indie" loosely. But post-hardcore, post-grunge, emo, whatever it's called it rocks. In a musically interesting and spiritually challenging way. All IMHO of course.

        • says

          What about Emery, Underoath and Anberlin? Do they fit into that category? I LOVE Emery, but have no idea where they would fall in the Christian music spectrum.

          • verity3 says

            I'll have to check out Emery and Underoath. If memory serves, when they first came out, Anberlin had a more commercially accessible form of a heavy sound. Pop vocals with nu-metal music? So… nu metal lite? Or maybe post-grunge is broad enough to cover them.

            Hope that's not an offensive take. Pop has its merits, and I don't claim to be an authority on rock music genres. When I see a label attached to one of my favorite bands, I point gleefully (heh) and say "Yes! That's what I like!"

  60. says

    I haven't watched it, mostly because I seem to be more or less incapable of watching sitcoms. After an average of three episodes I start sympathizing too closely with the characters and it just makes me cringe.

    That said, I'm rather in favor of a show that's re-introducing great songs to teens today.

  61. noelle says

    I love Glee. Matthew Morrison is adorable. Had there been a choir teacher that cute in my H.S., they woulda have to chase off the girls. There was a show choir in my HS. I don't remember that being a point of someone being popular or not. I do remember they had to bribe boys to try out with extra credit.

    Life would be way more fun if we could break out into song, at any time, for no reason at all, and people would just join in and dance with you

  62. says

    I love watching Glee (of course, I was a show choir member in high school, so I'm a bit biased). I was amazed at how many people said the loved the message of the "Grilled Cheesus" episode—to me it seemed like a "let's throw it all up against the wall and see what sticks" sort of religious approach, with a little ancestor worship thrown in to spice it up. If you want to skewer Christians as hypocrites, be my guest—we are!—but portraying a guy praying to a sandwich to get to second base with a girl… Wow.

    That said:

    I adore Jane Lynch's character. Many times she is the only thing that keeps the show from veering dangerously into sentimental "ABC's After-School-Special" territory.

    I also love Kurt's dad, who is allowed to be conflicted about his son's homosexuality. It would have been much easier to make him totally for or totally against. I love conflicted characters.

    And I love the singing and dancing. How can you not love singing and dancing?

  63. lindsay durrenberger says

    Eh. I'm a Glee middle-grounder. I DVR it because I have several friends who demand that I do. And I watch it. And it's alright. But the next week, I forget about it until someone says "DID YOU WATCH GLEE YET?!?! OMG WATCH IT NOW!!!!!!!sdfajsflaf" and so I do.

    Don't love it, don't hate it.

    Also. You were my favorite talk at Catalyst. Yay! K glad I told you.

  64. Eric Dotson says

    Dude, Mumford & Sons FTW!
    All the girls in our college bible study LOVE Glee and always get on us guys for not being totally into it. I too have watched it, and think it has it's good points, but in the end… no dice Glee; no dice.

  65. Doug says

    LOVE IT> GRILLED CHEESUS was an excellent look at how people so often look at God as some sort of magic genie in the sky. It was a refreshingly honest look at religion. I undertsand that people are uncomfortable. The truth often does that to us.

  66. says

    I just can't watch it! I ADORE the music and believe that the cast is ridiculously talented, but I get so offended by it (and I am not easily offended, sadly)! I stopped watching the show a few episodes in and have only tuned in since that time to watch the Britney episode. I will absolutely purchase all of the albums though!

  67. says

    Never watched it, no idea when it's on, heard great things about it, love the blonde actress that was in "Best in Show," and love the idea of it (as a band/choir geek myself in hs)…..but there's too much else to do to search it out. Maybe if I ever get around to catching up on Chuck, I'll see if it's on "OnDemand," but until then, there's Chuck to watch (and Zach Levi's a Christian, so that makes all things Chuck holy)!

  68. says

    I’m somewhere in the middle. I don’t schedule my week around it, but if it’s on and the kids aren’t up, I’ll watch. I really only watch because of the music. The drama/story line doesn’t do it for me. Oh and Mariah? Listen to her rendition of ‘O Holy Night.’ wow!

  69. says

    I'm just pleased to see so few of the sanctimonious comments that I expected in response to your question! While I do see a few pharisaical replies; overall, I read Christian comments from Christians who live loving lives in a broken world.

    I watch Glee and appreciate it for what it is. I love the music and the characters as they VERY slowly develop. I sometimes wonder if the storyboard was ever translated into an actual script. I am dismayed by the story lines at times, and I love the music (or did I say that already)?

    Do I question the values that are sometimes espoused on the show? Yes. Moreover, I question the manner in which the producers explore some contemporary values. Yet they are exploring them, not wishing they would go away.

    I have little doubt that Heaven is nothing like Glee. I also have great hope that Heaven is nothing like the average church – if it was, who would want to go there? If Jesus approached the average character on Glee, would He turn away? No more than He turned away from the woman at the well and others. He turned away from the Pharisees, though. If Jesus approached you or me, would He turn away? Hmmm…

  70. says

    To admit or not to admit. Hmmmmmmm. Yep I watch it and I love it! Maybe because I was the cheerleader in high school who also sang in the choir and ensemble group and it brings back memories. We weren't a glee club but it was pretty much the same thing. Pop music and shows but unfortunately we didn't get to wear all the cool costumes. You can be appalled by some of the issues or you can realize that for the most part that is exactly the stuff that kids deal with in high school.

  71. says

    1. Mariah has some BIG shoes to fill. Mariah and Harry Connick, Jr definitely corner the market in all-time best Christmas albums EVER. Pure genius.

    2. I agree with you about Mumford and Sons.

    3. I must say that I actually am an in-between kind of Glee fan. I love the music, but I could care less about the story lines. I don't care who Finn ends up with or doesn't end up with. When people ask if I watch, I respond "I watch it for the music", which automatically makes me feel like the grown men who claim they read Playboy "for the articles". But I honestly appreciate incredible talent, and you cannot get much better than Rachel Berry.

  72. says

    I LOVE Glee. Love it. It's everything dorky and cheesy and teen angsty that this 28-year-old thrives on. Except when I don't know the songs they're singing, and then I'm thankful for the DVR. I root for Kurt and totally empathize with Rachel. And laugh so hard at Brittany and Santana and Sue. She makes the show!

    And as a Christian, I have no problems with it or its "agenda." The Grilled Cheesus was funny. Sometimes I wonder if I'm too unoffended (I realize that's not a word) since I enjoy the humor in satires and such like that. Life is too short to stay offended and not see the humor, even if it's laughing at ourselves. I see no agenda, but then again, maybe that's because I'm one of those "liberal Christians" you mentioned before. I love the Mumfords. And Harry Potter. And His Dark Materials. And Disney World. I'm like the SBC's anti-poster child!

    • says

      But I also totally get it when people hate it because of the cheese factor and they just don't appreciate musicals and such. I've always figured that was the staunch love/hate divide, not because of any agendas. How interesting!

  73. davidsaleeba says

    I have only personally seen one episode, and heard a summary from an (the) episode my wife saw. My thoughts are that, from what I've seen, it is not a show to be trumpeted and heralded by the Christian community. Say what you will, but we have let Satan get too much of a foot in the door. This show seems to glorify things contrary to Christian values.

    And on a musical note, the show choir/ musical stuff makes gag anyway. I guess that's the jazz musician coming through.

  74. says

    Grilled Cheesus highlighted some important things for the Christian community. Kurt delivers a succinct expression of outsiders' perception of the church.

    As hard as it is to hear, we can usually learn a lot from being the targets of satire. Unfortunately, the behavior of the church in recent years gives a lot of credibility to Kurt's critique.

    Let's change that perception.

    • sarachoe says

      I agree. The development of Quinn in Season 1 of the show provoked/challenged me a lot.

      She's captain of the cheerleading team, which means she's at the top of the high school's popularity pyramid. She's cruel/mean to the social outcasts. Immediately, I don't like her. Then, it turns out she's the president of the celibacy club, where celibacy is reduced to "going as far as you can without crossing the line", and it's implied she's Christian/goes to church.

      Her character becomes more likeable later on, but it made me wonder what kind of Christians the writers were thinking of/have known to have created Quinn.

      So there's a fair amount of "meat" to the show; I enjoy their covers and interpretations of songs. And I love/hate Sue Sylvester – the writers really go all out on her lines.

  75. says

    First – The best Christmas album, hands down, is Bob Dylan's Christmas in the Heart. No other album can compare.
    Second – No I don't watch Glee. As a full time student and youth pastor, I don't have a lot of time to watch T.V. so when I get the chance, I don't watch a show that I don't find interesting. I'd rather watch Undercover Boss, or a show with some better motive behind it.

  76. KimLokke says

    Spontaneous high anxiety teen singing? Sounds heavenly! :P I can't watch it. I get very uncomfortable with it's how heavily it pushes its social agenda, secular messages. It makes me want to talk back to the TV, which makes my husband very uncomfortable. So, I guess what I'm saying is that, for us, Glee lacks comfortability.

  77. Jennifer says

    I've seen every singe episode. I love it; although I have to say I didn't really appreciate last week's "Grilled Cheesus" episode. IMHO it was a bit too irreverent.

  78. Kristen says

    I love Glee, but my favorite part about this article was the Mumford and Sons reference at the end. Beautiful Music.

  79. says

    as a youth pastor I tried to watch Glee because a lot of my kids love it. The problem that I had with it was that I felt that it clearly had an agenda and it was aimed at teenagers. Unfortunately a lot of teens don't possess the filter to know what's Truth and what's Hollywood. I will say that my wife loves the music and is most likely on Itunes right now buying one of the albumns

  80. says

    I'll overlook a lot of raunchiness and pushiness if a show really makes me laugh (Arrested Development) or tells an awesome story (anything by Joss Whedon). I wanted to like Glee because I liked the concept, but I found it was 95% wincing through the dirtiness and 5% feeble laughter. I've written it off.

  81. Katie says

    I love Glee, and while it may not be the most brilliant piece of writing in the entire world it surprises you with little moments that are incredibly touching/infuriating. I don't think young adults/adults are the target audience of the show at all and the way that they present important social issues by mixing it with catchy songs re-done with wicked cool choral vocals mixed in ("Like a Prayer" gives me chills) does exactly what it's meant to do: make teenagers think.

  82. says

    I'm in the never watched it camp. I'm not passionately against it, however I'm also one of those bad Christians who allowed nee encouraged my children to read Harry Potter.

    Lest you think I'm sanctimonious, my guilty pleasure is Desperate Housewives and I like Brothers and Sisters.

    Now about Modern Family. We watched it with the kids and found it rather funny last year. My husband and I feel however like Two and a half Men, it is going off the deep end of raunchy. We think the creepiest character of them all is the guy who is part of the family with 3 children, married to the blonde. He seriously needs to go.

  83. says

    I like it. I confess I like musicals anyway. For the most part I don't think its preachy-it's 'campy'. Every topic is fair game to their writers. Last week it was religion and maybe they pushed the envelope a little much but there are a lot of people in this world who feel exactly like Kurt-'I don't believe in God but I believe in you'….something to talk about in our families or around the water cooler. Not sure anyone still has water coolers but if they do…

  84. says

    I really enjoy Glee, mostly because I'm a huge music nerd. I was in show choir in high school, so I love all of that stuff.

    I have recently struggled with whether or not I should keep watching it though. For example, the character of Kurt. He's gay. Ok, some background on me first: I'm a really emotional person and cry at the drop of a sweet and sappy Hallmark commercial. On a few occasions, I've found myself crying along with Kurt when people just can't understand his sexuality. I'd catch myself and think 'Why am I crying?? I do not believe homosexuality is ok!' I don't think we should mistreat or judge homosexuals just like we shouldn't mistreat or judge liars (since we're all sinners here!), but I do not agree that it's something people are born with and people should just accept that. I felt slightly manipulated into an emotional response.

    I'm also unsure how to respond to last week's 'Grilled Cheesus.' It just kinda rubbed me the wrong way.

    Anyway, after all that, I'm one of those Christians who really loves it for the music, but isn't quite sure about some of the agendas they seem to be pushing….Just my opinion!

    • verity3 says

      Sounds like it's making you think, too, which is also a good thing.

      I believe good stories make us feel something as well. It makes me want to cry when people mistreat homosexuals. But the same goes for mistreating Christians. (People find it hard to agree, or even be consistent, on what constitutes mistreatment. For me, talking *at* rather than *with* a person is a trigger. Yet I'm still trying to get the hang of this dialogue thing myself.) A boundary for me is whether a particular communication is trying to use emotional manipulation to make me *stop thinking*.

      Another boundary is whether something is drawing me away from God. Different people have different thresholds and triggers, and that's okay :)

    • Phoeniceus says

      Human sexuality is not condition like a disease that you are "born with," gay, straight, or otherwise. Nor is it something that everyone consciously chooses to be. Ask yourself: If you are straight, do you think someone could make you gay? If the answer is no, then why do you think that to opposite is true (ie someone who is gay chooses to be gay)? If the answer is yes, then human sexuality is much more complex than a black/white (gay/straight) definition.

      While I agree with and admire some of your theology (". . . we're all sinners here!"), human sexuality is not something that can be easily defined or judged as right or wrong. Perhaps you are empathetic to a character who is being mistreated because you are compassionate and sensitive. It may not have anything to do with the character's sexuality.

      • KMR says

        And if this is the case (which I believe whole heartedly to be true), then perhaps we need to rethink the whole sancrimonious "love the sinner, hate the sin" comment. From a gay person's point of view, their "sin" cannot be separated from their identity so saying that at every opportunity makes us sound at the very least insensitive and at the very most ignorant and bigoted.

    • rosbergs3 says

      The character of Kurt is gay???? AAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! HE IS!!! Oh dear jeebers in heaven….a GAY character on TV????? You dont say. Kimberly sweetie: Get out more. Get to know people a little bit better. Break out of your shell. And, maybe, move out of your parents house. I may be wrong about that last part though. Learn about the theories of what may possibly cause same-sex attractions. Educate yourself a little more before making silly comments. Alot of people who comment about homosexuality should do that.

      • KMR says

        I'm going to have to stick up for Kimberly here. I, too, get annoyed when it seems Christians do not educate themselves in regards to the homosexual community, but I wouldn't say she was making a silly comment. She was simply expressing her point of view how she sees it. And for all we know, she may have tons of gay friends and have lots of different experiences. In other words, we don't know anything about her and I don't think we should be making judgements on why she believes the way she does.

        • says

          Thanks, everyone! I appreciate all the comments. The show definitely gives us a lot of different issues to think about, homosexuality being one of them. And as Christians, I think it's a great opportunity for us to join in some of the conversations

  85. Carrie says

    The only episode I watched was when the guy's wife was pretending to be pregnant – fake ultrasound and all. That was it for me. Definitely not a fan.

  86. says

    My theory is that the writers/producers of Glee had no idea it was going to do as well as it did from the beginning. Seems like no one had thought through the long-term story arc, character development, etc. I've stopped watching it due to the contrived story lines, repetitive plot (what? they're canceling glee club? again?!) and overt agendas. Ugh.

  87. Nick Estelle says

    I used to love it. I was a choir geek in high school and all through college, so it's really fun for me, but they keep pushing the gay agenda down my throat, and the Britney Spears episode was a soft-core orgy, so I'm considering ditching it.

  88. says

    I have never watched it, not even a tiny little bit. I am somewhat proud of my lack of exposure to the phenom that is Glee.

    I have resisted other temptations….Lady Gaga, leggings (including jeggings), and babywearing. what's one more. I will be a stronger, albeit more stereotypical, Christian for it.

      • Debbie says

        Baby wearing is a fad? People have been cuddling their babies close to their hearts in slings since the dawn of time. I seriously doubt eve was pushing cain and able around in a double stroller while picking berries. I really fail to see how strapping your kid into a stroller instead of holding them near your heart and lips makes you closer to God.

  89. says

    I think Sue Sylvester is a work of genius, and Glee's a great way to unwind at the end of the day. In fact, much as I was determined to hate their covers of all my favourite music, I think a lot of it is actually quite good.

    And yet at the same time, I find I'm mildly embarrassed to be admitting all this to a load of complete strangers.

    Get ye behind me, William McKinley!

  90. Courtney Paige says

    Never watched it. I think something id rather watch is on at that time or maybe its just that a bunch of random kids singing does not interest me.

  91. verity3 says

    "I remind him constantly that the group Acapella (one of his favs) is like the Christian version of Glee…"

    Bwa ha ha… :)

  92. says

    I'm a middle ground-er, actually. I usually roll my eyes at the syrupy agendas being pushed through the dialogue, but the fun music mashups, great guest episodes, and the peppering of good comic moments have kept me keeping up with the show.

    I wouldn't say I'm a fan, but for now I'm keeping up with it. I was ready to drop it after the Britney episode, but this past week's episode had some really interesting and sincere takes on faith questions.

    I will never love it as much as I love the Mumford and Sons album, either.

  93. says

    I absolutely love Glee! It brings me back to my own high school show choir days. (Yup, I was THAT cool). The music has its own playlist on my iPod. The writing is funny and unpredictable. But, I do wish that lots of the storylines weren't so morally yucky. But, we can't expect people who aren't Christian to act Christian. Maybe enjoying it despite some of the smut makes me a hypocrite. Judge me if you want, but my DVR is already set for tomorrow night!

  94. thriftstoretee says

    Just the latest example of trying to define what is culturally normal and acceptable through entertainment. Nothing new, but I can't stand shows with an agenda (nor can I separate art from artist). Just wish my friends could see.

  95. BEP says

    Hate it. Saw 1.5 episodes and came to the conclusion that I'm pretty sure that God is not pleased when I watch it (you know the reasons why). So I don't.

  96. Nate Elgin says

    I think Christians should watch Glee, especially those who serve in student ministries. If we are going to be influential in our culture, we have to know what our culture is into. I'm not thrilled about how Jesus was portrayed last week, but at least he's getting national attention. It's now on us to step up and clarify/correct.

    Besides all of that, I love how blatantly over-the-top the show is. I was also in choir in high school. So, that automatically qualifies me as a fan, I think.

    • Greg says

      Would you use your logic to make the following statement:____"I think Christians should watch porn, especially those who serve in student [or singles] ministries. If we are going to be influential in our culture, we have to know what our culture is into."____If not, why not?

  97. Matt T. says

    I hate to dismantle the post, but there actually is something in the middle… I've never watched Glee. It just looks like some High School Musical sort of thing that would drive me nuts after five minutes.

  98. pastorleanne says

    I'm a Gleek. My husband and I DVR it each Tuesday night, and watching it together is a highlight of our week. I kind of made a rhyme!!! I was nervous about the "Grilled Cheesus" episode, but I thought the topic of religion was tastefully done.

  99. says

    There are worse shows on TV, but I personally don't like it because of the storyline in which the Glee coach essentially gets tired of his wife and decides to hook up with the other teacher. I see enough of that in real life; I don't need to see it on TV.

  100. Becky says

    I watched Glee a few times the first season. It had a wonderful potential to spoof Disney's High School Musical. When the student tried to seduce her teacher, well, I was done with it. I'm not a Glee hater, but there is a whole Netflicks world out there: Are You Being Served?, Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid, Soap …

  101. Gracie says

    I really enjoyed last week's episode; I thought they dealt with the religion "issue" in a far more balanced way than you ever see on television. The best part was the conversation between Sue and her sister. I was bawling, no joke.

  102. Glee-meh says

    I actually kind of like it. I love it last season when it all was new, but I've grown a bit tired. I don't think I've ever taken it as anything but just another TV show. I did not see anything revolutionary in the way it portrayed any social issues. Its a TV show. With some talented singers. But now that it's in , im loosing interest in it.

  103. Beth says

    Nothing beats new Mumford and Sons – who are live streaming right now btw: http://www.BBC.co.uk/radio1/events/mumfordandsons

    As far as Glee goes: the first several episodes were fresh and great, and since then it has been hit or miss. More often than not, the covers are fantastic, but occasionally they throw in something migraine-inducing like Jessie’s Girl. Not ok. Find this girl firmly on the fence. I loved it, and now I wish it was always as could as it can be and has been.

  104. says

    I love Glee. I really don't find any more problems with it than any other show on network TV. The music is always great, the dialogue is so funny, and the people are pretty talented! I was a concert choir geek myself in high school (small Christian schools don't have glee club, I suppose…) so I guess that's why I love it so much.

    However, as a worship leader in my church, the pastor does like to get on to me for liking it. But whatever… Don't Stop Believing (the Glee version) is his ringtone for me. :D

    • Free_Agent says

      "the pastor does like to get on to me for liking it" — meaning he teases you for liking it, or he thinks it is sinful to like it?

  105. says

    I use to watch Glee and looked forward to it every week. I loved it because of the music and hated it because of the zero redeeming qualities of the charaters in the show. I justified watching by saying I was in it for the music. Then one day it hit me that I had just pulled out the "I read it for the articles" argument. I was doing the suburban housewife version of reading the interview section of Playboy. I deleted it from my dvr and haven't looked back.

  106. says

    I love Glee. I love it so very very much. How am I *not* going to tune in every week to watch an hour-long musical on TV?!

    This last episode is the one that I've found has really polarized my Christian friends. A couple of my friends who were on the fence decided not to watch it after this last week, when, really, I thought it was one of the best ones they've done, both musically and scriptwise. Yeah, it didn't end with an altar call, but it presented a very fair view of religion. The thing that most people freaked out about was Finn praying to his grilled cheese sandwich, but I just saw that as an image of what happens when we don't really search for religion or God and try to cobble our own together out of what we see… We get let down.

    I'm hard to offend, though. Heh. I'm not upset that presumably non-Christian writers and producers are putting out a show that reflects a non-Christian view of life. That's kind of how people work.

    Frankly, I was more offended by the Britney/Brittany episode, which seemed to exist purely to recreate sleazy music videos. Badly.

  107. Jennifer says

    I watch and I love. I don't really see any Christian undertones, but then again I can't say I've been looking for them. I tend to just watch shows that entertain me and I'm usually thoroughly entertained by Glee. Have some friends who were in glee club in school and they really hate it b/c it's so unrealistic (?). I say, come on people, it's TV. As a nurse, I could have totally torn apart ER, but seriously? It's a TV SHOW, not a documentary. ha!

  108. Free_Agent says

    I'm on the "in-between" train too. For the most part I enjoyed last season – I nearly fell off my chair laughing in the "Acafellas" episode – but it started going down the drain for me by the end of last season, and it's even worse this season so far. I think last season the show didn't take itself so darn seriously – yes, the plots were absurd, but the writers were going for absurdist humor, so that was ok. Now it feels like the show has sold out – Glee lunchboxes, Glee albums, Glee perfume, rights to do Glee movies (really Ryan Murphy?). And worst of all, it's affecting the quality of their product. Last season the Madonna episode was fresh and funny. Now that the corporate suits see dollar signs it's one manufactured tribute after the next. They even do tributes on demand (see Spears, Britney). The writing is suffering, now the plots revolve around a bunch of songs, instead of vice versa. Even the music has gotten worse – more autotuned than ever, and entirely too much Rachel. Just my thoughts.

  109. says

    I am absolutely in the middle ground. I tolerate Glee.
    ALTHOUGH, I think that reaction may be a mash-up (to use a glee word) of extreme love and hate. I love me some show choir songs on roller skates. Absurdity is beautiful. But I hate the lack of moral resolution. I get how others could deal with it, but it makes me super queasy.
    Therefore, I avoid the show myself but do not judge the Glee-faithful. I'll even watch the song clips (and only the clips) on Hulu when I'm in the mood to diva-dance with my two kiddos.
    Am I a freak of nature?

  110. kelsy says

    I watch Glee. But I don't tell my Christian friends that I watch it. I don't tell my non-Christian friends either. I hide in my house after everyone else is asleep and watch it online. Don't tell.

  111. Whitnie says

    Honestly, I think it is just important to be able to differentiate between what is real and what it false. There are important messages in Glee about respect and equality. Glee is about differences and how we should embrace them. It’s no different than reading Twilight or Harry Potter; neither are real but both are entertaining to people and some find a deeper meaning in them. What it boils down to is that people have to be able to stand firm in their faith and know the difference between pop culture and what they believe.
    I personally love Glee. I find it entertaining and I have been able to find a valuable message in each episode. If someone else doesn’t like it, then that’s fine. They don’t have to like it. (: To each their own.

  112. Beth says

    I'm one of those few that neither loves or hates Glee. I've never watched it and am simply not interested in doing so. It must play opposite something I do watch. Not sure when it's on. I have had a number of friends tell me I should watch it, that I'll just love it. Haven't had anyone tell me I shouldn't watch it for any reason.

  113. Bess says

    Another question might be: Do you let your 13-year-old watch Glee? Heck, no. It's a show with a lot of adult content that has just the right kind of music for preteens. Frightening combo.

    • verity3 says

      So true. Though I'm not saying I know what anyone else's 13-year-old is ready for with parental supervision, I am starting to consider limiting my daughter's media exposure to characters in her own age group. There may be good reasons for some exceptions, but there seems to be a trend of marketing shows to younger kids, that are about older kids, that act older than their age.

      If our culture weren't so youth-obsessed, I think a lot of shows like "Gossip Girl" could be set in college, for example.

  114. Gina952 says

    I absolutely love musicals — "Singin' in the Rain" is my favorite movie, I saw "Phantom" onstage four times, etc. — and yet I've never watched "Glee" and have no desire to. I'm not sure exactly why. It looks so over the top. Plus, I'm really interested in show tunes, not Madonna, Britney, Lady Gaga, and so on. If I want a musical, I want a MUSICAL, not a showcase for pop that you hear all the time anyway. That's just me.

  115. pbj says

    First Christmas Albums
    Mariah's is good but the best all time is Nat King Cole's and the best contemporary one is Christian: City on a Hill's Christmas Album and Secular: Boys II Men's…that's an especially odd distinction given it's primarily the same songs

    Second – Glee
    First glimpse I got was the episode where the football player defended the kid in the wheel chair – one of the best tv moments of all time
    Second glimpse excited about this awesome new show was the episode with the Abstinence Club thing and I got tired of having my views bashed and getting lumped in with the hypocrite cheerleader characters that they were mocking.
    Third glimpse through the commercials was the Glee leader and his wife splittng up
    Sorry, no longer interested

  116. Karen says

    I used to love it, even recorded it. Last week's episode was just a huge huge turn off. To me the only people who even had a clue about what God is , was Sue's sister who said "God doesn't make junk" and the lady who held the Kurt guy's hand in church. I honestly felt they took a sucker punch to Christianity, and really no other religion. I have friends of all walks of faith and many agreed. Every character was just self absorbed as always but I just walked away sad. It was fun when it was about music, but pushing the agendas that they are pushing are just getting on my nerves, especially with the move to the younger 8pm time slot. I can't imagine those themes being presented to that young an age group. Ending with "What if God were one of us"? Well, he's not. And you aren't God. Get over it Hollywood. I have, sadly, gotten over Glee. It's free speech, I have it they have it. I'm just moving on.

    • jdens says

      Interesting to read this because in a Glee recap I read about that episode, the atheist authors were offended because they felt it was decidedly pro-religion. Personally, I didn't think they were trying to favor either theism or atheism but to emphasize the sacredness of our human relationships. Not a bad message, and something that could help keep our dialogues more civil.

      As for "What if God was one of us", I'm surprised you object. He was indeed one of us if we hold to the Incarnation. And isn't it also a Christian principle that we are made in God's image? That we are temples of the Holy Spirit? I thought it was a beautiful way to affirm the sacredness of our fellow human beings, something that everyone, religious or not, should be able to agree on.

      • Karen says

        What if God were one of us? Just a slob like one of us….I don't know . He WAS one of us. We put him on a cross. You don't even know me so what are you surprised about?lol. I said I didn't like it. You are welcome to like it. I used to like it….back when it was entertainment. Now I laugh more at 60 minutes….ok, that's not true.

        • jdens says

          Surprised because you seemed to object to the show's treatment of Christianity, and yet a song that I think affirms a profound and basic tenet of Christianity you also found offensive. I don't mind if people like or dislike the show–I watch it and enjoy it sometimes more than others–but I'll admit it frustrates me when people seem to think that all art and entertainment should be a reflection of their own opinions and values. Having said that, I understand why people are offended when they think their opinions and values have been actively belittled.

        • jdens says

          I should probably leave well enough alone, but because you kept saying "What if God WERE one of us" while I thought it was "What if God WAS one of us", and there is a semantic difference, I went ahead and looked up the lyrics. They include, if you're interested, the following:

          If God had a name what would it be?
          And would you call it to his face?
          If you were faced with him
          In all his glory
          What would you ask if you had just one question?

          *And yeah, yeah, God is great
          Yeah, yeah, God is good
          Yeah, yeah, yeah-yeah-yeah

          What if God was one of us?
          Just a slob like one of us
          Just a stranger on the bus
          Trying to make his way home

          If God had a face what would it look like?
          And would you want to see
          If seeing meant that
          you would have to believe
          in things like heaven and in Jesus and the saints
          and all the prophets (*)

          I have no opinion about how good the song is, but they're some pretty pertinent questions to the theme of the show, and I don't see how they could be interpreted in an anti-Christian or anti-religious way. (Sorry to beat a dead horse, but the wording was still niggling at me.)

    • Russell says

      I agree…

      this episode was postmodernism at its best. a philosophical epidemic if not pandemic taking our nation hostage….

      even the Christian character is fine with athiest character believing whatever he wants to believe, whatever is true for him is fine… no its not christian character. by definition there can be only one truth.

      everyone is fine with this episode because it was bashing christianity…what if it were bashing any other group.. it would be off the air in 2 seconds if it did that to any group religious or otherwise…

      • Matt T. says

        The last time we were not fine with letting other people believe what they want to believe, the Crusades happened.

        Let me tell you something about shoving faith down people's throats–it doesn't work. In fact, it's one of the most effective ways of ensuring that Christianity continues to shrink.

        • jdens says

          And that wasn't even the last time, sadly. The Puritans did plenty of their own persecution, and I'm sure there are more recent examples, too.

          • Karen says

            You guys are welcome to post an original thought,lol. This is kinda sad.jdens are you really into debating? Have you actually made a difference doing that? Don't talk about it, be about it. You'll never change the world on a blog comment section, or in your case a reply to someone else's original comment. It's just anger & hate. Go make a difference in the world.You aren't making a difference in mine. It's like seeing a car accident happen. I don't stop going down that highway. I'm not changing my relationship with God or my service to him because of anything you or Glee almighty think. I am simply saying the show is no longer for me. Why do you care? Are you a sponsor? Nobody really wants to hear what you say, they want to see it. Go be something. Live the life you are so desperately arguing for. Go live it. Good luck.

          • KMR says

            Then don't post on here if you don't want someone commenting. That's what people do. And no one responded to your original post in anger and hate. They simply asked you questions to try and understand why you are thinking the way you are. If you have problem with people doing that, then it's probably best not to say anything in the first place.

          • Karen says

            You are right. What was I thinking? I was enjoying reading the 7 pages before my post seeing the variety of opinions and thought I would share how I felt. I didn't mean to open such a debate. Usually Jon doesn't get this degree of sharing. Good luck to you guys in your discussion. I have learned….lol.

          • KMR says

            Actually Jon normally gets much more debating than this. And it can be quite intense. I would refer you to the post at least faith, church is the best place to meet prayer dates, prayer insults, thinking the rapture has hit you when you're alone, thinking God blocks you from the internet sometimes. Those are the ones I'm remembering off the top of my head and most of those occurred within the last three weeks or so. I guess that's why a few of us were confused over your reaction. This debating feels pretty mild compared to some of the other posts I've seen.

          • jdens says

            Karen, this was unquestionably uncivil, contemptuous and presumptuous. Not only have we not responded with anger or hate, but I don't think anyone who's commented has a problem with you not liking Glee. We are just voicing a different perspective on the issues raised. It's dialogue. This particular thread is in response to Russell's insinuation that a real Christian would not be ok with other people believing different things. I think that's a dangerous road to go down.

            As for making a difference, I think dialogue does make a difference, and it can happen face-to-face, or on a blog, but hearing and considering perspectives other than our own is important. It's not arguing for the sake of arguing. You can try to surround yourself with people and entertainment that only confirm what you already think and believe, but that's a pretty small way to live. (And I don't assume that you live your life that way, because that would be silly, to assume things about a stranger's life.)

          • Karen says

            Ok. You are right and I am wrong..now I am (in reality) going to go pack for my (real) trip to a 3rd world country. I wish you well.

          • Matt T. says

            Forgive my bluntness, but I'm pretty sure Jesus wasn't a huge fan of people using their charity work for bragging rights.

          • jdens says

            Darn, Matt T. And I was just about to whip out my own 3rd world mk credentials, as if that had anything to do with what we're talking about here. :)

          • jdens says

            In all seriousness, though, Karen, do enjoy your trip. I'm sorry if I reacted too strongly to your comment above. I truly believe that living with and engaging with other cultures, languages, and religions is a rewarding experience, and not just because of some difference you might make, but because of how it changes you. Godspeed.

          • Russell says

            The way you two (jdens, matt t) treated karen, makes me feel so much better about disagreeing with you elsewhere on this blog…

            for as much christiany talk as you guys display, you sure are jerks…

            i hear your Karen.

            oh and as far as credentials…. B.A. in Biblical Studies MDiv Phd in New Testament and Theology.

          • Matt T. says

            "The last time we were not fine with letting other people believe what they want to believe, the Crusades happened.

            Let me tell you something about shoving faith down people's throats–it doesn't work. In fact, it's one of the most effective ways of ensuring that Christianity continues to shrink."

            "Forgive my bluntness, but I'm pretty sure Jesus wasn't a huge fan of people using their charity work for bragging rights."

            These are the only two statements I made with regards to Karen. I'm not sure how the first one could be construed as offensive at all, so I'm not even going to address it. As to the second one, yeah, it's a little blunt, but I felt it needed to be said. I intended absolutely no offense whatsoever, and I apologize if it came off that way. I did attempt to be as cordial about it as I could without dancing around the point forever.

          • Matt T. says

            Also, I think all of us, on both sides, are beginning to mistake disagreement with meanness.

            I mean, I think a scant few people are being a bit jerk-ish, but most of us aren't.

          • verity3 says

            I don't think you were being a jerk at all, Matt. But phrases like "shoving faith down other people's throats" come with a lot of baggage. When people hear them, sometimes they hear not only what you are saying, but also what the last person in their life said who used the same phrase, and they may also feel the emotional impact of that phrase that has built up from hearing it over a lifetime. It's not fair, because you don't mean all those things. But that is what often happens.

            I hope I am not coming across as judgmental for analyzing word choice. I am bumbling through this myself. Personally, I used to throw truth-bombs all over the place because I thought that was the best I could do. I felt judged every time someone questioned my using the Bible to discuss right and wrong, because I also inferred the accusations of hate crimes employed by others on "the other side." It took me a long time to figure out I wasn't being fair.

          • verity3 says

            But there are still well-meaning Christians who think they have the Love market cornered because they emphasize Compassion or Winsomeness, who are ready to jump on Truth-oriented Christians, every time they open their mouths, with charges of Phariseeism. It's an epidemic, and it makes church feel like a war zone. (It's also wildly hypocritical, but maybe that's beside the point I'm trying to make.) It makes it very difficult for a Truth-oriented person to see any benefit in even *trying* to consider other people's feelings or be diplomatic. Which is very unfair to the Compassion- and Winsomeness-oriented Christians who are *not* throwing names like "Pharisee" all over the place. (And even the Truth-oriented ones who are trying to incorporate Compassion and Winsomeness. Oh the humanity…)

            But although I don't believe God orchestrates the slander, I know He has used it in my life to make me more sensitive to the needs of others. The last thing I want to do anymore is accuse someone of wrongdoing for being who God wired them up to be.

          • Matt T. says

            I'm having a bit of trouble understanding you here. You seem to be making a distinction here between Truth-oriented Christians and Love-oriented ones, and I'm not sure exactly what you mean by either of these terms.

            Either way, I hope no one thinks I view everyone who disagrees with me as a Pharisee, because I don't. I truly am interested in honest discussion here, and I hope I've offended no one. Very sorry if I have.

            As to word choice, no, I don't think you're being judgmental. It is difficult, though, to keep up with that, because we all have that kind of baggage assigned to something. And it becomes ten times as hard over the Internet, because it's a little easier in real life to convince people that I'm not trying to be mean. ;)

          • verity3 says

            Sorry if I'm being obtuse. I'm trying to explain in everyday language where I'm coming from, but I'm using a framework that has even more obtuse terms.

            What I'm trying to say is that our culture these days seems to have a Truth-Love dichotomy which affects how certain personality types are treated. My point is that this is a false dichotomy. Compassion-oriented people, under this framework, are *not* synonymous with "Love-oriented people." They just show love one way, and Truth-oriented people show love another way. But it's the equating of the Compassion/Feelings outlook with love, that makes the Truth-oriented people feel frequently judged. And therefore often touchy.

            And it *is* really hard to keep up with what's going to trigger people's buttons. I was just trying to reassure you that you're *not* coming across as jerky IMO, while still pointing out where I'm coming from (and maybe others too).

          • jdens says

            I'm not familiar with your framework, but it reminds me of the distinction made in a communications class between "masculine" and "feminine" styles of communicating. Where the former was often focused on arguing (and winning) a particular point, the latter was often focused on seeking out what the speakers have in common so as to forge a more cooperative relationship. I'm not sure I agree with the labeling, which to me simply reinforces the men-as-thinkers/women-as-feelers stereotypes, but I certainly have encountered the extreme versions of these styles before. Neither is much fun (in the extreme).

          • verity3 says

            Oh boy, negotiation vs. cooperation. Though my husband and I both often fail to live up to gender stereotypes, this is one area where we do. At least in relation to each other. No fun indeed, sometimes.

            The framework is the People Model developed by Dr. Sarah Sumner in her book "Leadership Above the Line." It points out the different outlooks of Strategists, Humanitarians and Diplomats, as well as a need for individuals to pursue ethics in all three areas. Because everyone is a mix of all three, in different amounts. We just need to use our powers for good. :)

            Actually I've noticed, at least in the circles I run in, that men seem to have an easier time being Strategists, and women have an easier time being Humanitarians (and anyone can make it as a Diplomat – they know all this stuff instinctively and will one day take over the world…). As a female Strategist, I feel like people look at me as a traitor to my kind or something.

          • jdens says

            oh how I feel you on that "traitor to your kind" sentiment. I'm trying to be more diplomatic as I get older–it helps to remember how many of the opinions I held so vociferously when younger that I have since rejected.

            My mom's a Diplomat with a capital D, and I'm pretty sure she could rule the world if she wanted to. :)

          • jdens says

            I'm also a little confused as to which comment earned me the title of "jerk". I can't remember the last time anyone called me that or anything like it…it's a bit of a thrill. :)

            Although the name-calling is unpleasant, thank you for making me reconsider how my responses might read to others. I had already apologised to Karen for how strongly I expressed my indignation at what I interpreted to be an extremely derisive comment. The only other comment I see that might come across as "jerky" was my aside to Matt T about whipping out 3rd world credentials. In spirit, I was gently poking fun at Karen's assumptions about what little difference we must make in the "real" world, but I realise that in text, it can come across a little snarkier. I certainly wasn't trying to prove any superiority. Sorry about that. (and kudos on your degrees)

            Of course, if you knew the self-censorship that went on before I submitted any of those comments, maybe you wouldn't be so hard on me–or maybe you'd think I was even more of a jerk! I do try to be thoughtful and level-headed when I make comments, but sometimes knee-jerk (ha!) reactions make it past the self-censorship anyway. I needed to wait for the sting of this insult to pass, for example, before deciding whether and how to respond.

          • Matt T. says

            It takes me like twenty minutes to comment on here. Seriously. It's a pretty incendiary issue, and it gets worse when the debate gets heated. The wrong word in the wrong place causes a lot of trouble.

            Really, though, people can say all they want about what I think or how I live or the ways that I'm different, and I don't take two seconds to care, but when someone tells me they think something's up with my character, I do take that very seriously. Right after Russell's accusation, I read all of my comments on this post carefully to see where any offense might've been. I still don't really see it, but then again, my perspective is different. I know the thoughts behind what I said, which makes it harder to see how it actually comes off.

      • verity3 says

        I didn't see this episode, so I can't comment on what the "Christian character" said, but all this reminds me of something I've been pondering recently…

        Is there a difference between *embracing* pluralism and defending/"tolerating" it? (As Jesus uses "tolerate," not the worldly sense "don't argue.")

        I was raised Absolutist, but find myself becoming more Moderate in the sense of wanting to dialogue with other points of view. Even though I also want other people to know Christ, He is a Gentleman about it and I figure I should be a lady about it. Though I still agree with many Absolutists that (1) There is such a thing as absolute truth, and (2) Only God knows perfectly what is absolute truth.

        How do we interact with Pluralism in a godly way?

        • verity3 says

          Okay, I guess I should define my terms and ask my question more clearly. I am borrowing the terms of one of my other favorite bloggers, Prof. John Stackhouse:

          extremists, who seek to impose [their religion] by any means possible;
          absolutists, who seek to impose [their religion] by any legitimate political means;
          moderates, who seek to impose [their religion] by persuasion and who support pluralism as an intermediate stage in political history;
          liberals, who reinterpret [their religion] in a whatever way squares with contemporary reason and experience;
          mystics, who allegorize [their religion] to confine it to private spiritual experience; and
          assimilationists, who essentially conform to western values and see [their religion] as tribal lore to be honoured symbolically and selectively but not as the governing rule of any part of life.

          And at the risk of opening a whole 'nother can of worms, I am posting the link to the referenced list of terms as it relates to Muslim shari’ah law:
          http://stackblog.wordpress.com/2010/09/18/shariah

          • jdens says

            Hi, Verity3. Can you define what you mean by pluralism? There seems to be a range of meanings available.

          • verity3 says

            Maybe that is part of my dilemma. By pluralism, I mean the *existence* of different viewpoints. Different religions, denominations, political perspectives, emphases within schools of thought, the whole kit 'n kaboodle.

            Maybe I do embrace it. I'm trying to figure out how to communicate that I value different perspectives, and more to the point I value the people who espouse them (everyone), without promoting all of them. I do want everyone to know and love Jesus. But I don't want to shove Christianity down anyone's throat.

            But sometimes it seems like people are assuming that anyone to the right of them in methodology, is "forcing," while they themselves are "sharing." And that anyone to the left of them is "corrupting the good with bad," (or "throwing out the good") while they themselves are "including all the good." But I think sometimes we would learn more from each other (and hear God speaking more), if only we could come up with less-loaded terminology.

            Or maybe I am trying too hard to rebuild the tower of Babel. But I think I am trying to build on the work of Christ.

            Does any of this make sense? 'Cause my head hurts.

          • KMR says

            I think I understand what you're getting at and like you, I worry and pray about it all the time. I don't want to please my "itching ears". I want to please God. Desperately. So I pray – a lot. I study – a lot. I constantly try to keep in mind that although I don't believe in man-made truths, I need to respect those who do and try to keep in mind that to be an effective witness to the unsaved, those unsaved must first feel loved by me. And I need to love them in the way that they recognize, not in the way I feel inclined to give.

            That's what I try to do. I am the first to say I fail miserably every day, but I will continue to strive to do what I feel God asks of me.

            "You shall the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and foremost commandement. The second is like it. You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend the whole law and prophets."

          • verity3 says

            I agree. And I believe it cuts both ways – in how I love the unsaved, and the saved.

            I love truth, and I love with truth, and I feel loved with truth. Even when the truth hurts, I still kinda love it. But not everyone feels that way. (Even if I could articulate the truth perfectly, which I can't.) So I try to work in compassion and (even!) diplomacy, when I sense that is what the other person needs. Sometimes I suck at it though.

            I don't think I can abandon the truth style completely, because that is how God has wired me up. But He's allowed to wire other people up differently. And I believe He has. So my approach and emphasis need to flex.

          • jdens says

            Those are some good observations, and they made me reflect how much we (everybody) want others to see what we see. And yet, how wonderful that we all have a different view. I remember one of my favourite professors expressing wonder that there was any debate between absolutism and relativism as if they were mutually exclusive. He held up an object–maybe it was a book–and he said something like, "Say this book is absolute truth. It's definitely here. I can see it; you can see it; but no one of us can see it in its entirety because we are all in different positions relative to the book. There are parts that you can see that I can't, and vice versa. There are also parts we both can see and some that we both can't. We are inescapably contextual beings, so our relationship to absolute truth must be contextual."

            OK, so I realise you weren't necessarily talking about relativism, but I bring this up because I have a feeling that a key to engaging in any meaningful way with the Other is the humility of acknowledging that we do not have a full view of Truth/Love/God, and even what view we do have may be distorted. KMR is right to hilight the commandment to love–we weren't commanded to be right or to prove how right we are but to Love. I know I needed to be reminded of that today.

          • verity3 says

            Your professor was so right. We need to keep in mind that we are finite beings in our own context.

            The thing is, part of the context for people who believe Scripture is God's Word, is that being "right" (or striving for it) is an important part of His commandment to love. For some that means "truthful," for others "compassionate," for others "winsome." (There are probably other emphases, but those are part of a three-part framework I've been using recently). We *are* commanded to do/be all those things. It's just that Love wraps them all up and helps God speak through us. And God's Love helps us stop relying on our own efforts.

            We do Try. But we also Rest. The point, for us who believe, is to do both in Christ. More of that darn tension that makes us look at context, I guess :)

        • verity3 says

          And my question is, should I feel comfortable being between the Absolutist Christians and the Moderate Christians, defending Pluralism but not embracing it, or do I need to reevaluate my terms and get off the fence?

          • KMR says

            I'm pretty much where it sounds you are and I'm comfortable. The terms you mentioned are man-made terms and you don't have to conform to what is man-made.

          • verity3 says

            I think you're right. I find man-made tools *so* useful at times though. Like language. And frameworks. And even orthodoxy, when used well.

            I guess if I can't figure out how to use a tool, that's a good sign it's not the one for me at the moment.

  117. Stephanie says

    Eh. That’s how I feel about Glee. When it first began I was so excited about the show! So excited that I missed the first two episodes. Mind you, Tuesday is my early to bed night. Then I watched a couple episodes and was like “wow this show is good”. Then I forgot about for the rest of the season. I did watch the Brittany episode because, well I secretly love Brittany Spears and if you tell anyone I WILL kill you!! And I watched the Grilled Chesus episode because, come on Grilled Chsus? Hilarious. But I doubt I watch tomorrow, it not that great. Of course the siniging is wonderful (they did a song from Yentl, OMG, Yentl!!!) but the actul show doesn’t have the hard hitting story line that will have me cit off my phone (Grey’s Anatomy anyone?). So, eh. The music is good, I can watch it but I don’t have to watch it. I’m Luke-warm. About Glee, not Jesus (not trying to be thrown inthat firely lake and all). Btw, Modern Family is AWESOME!

  118. pbj says

    that's far from the only counter-Biblical theme running throughout Glee

    not saying there aren't redeeming moments too and not saying that's any different from most media, just making the observation it's more than just one particular issue

    • KMR says

      Counter-Biblical by whose standards? If you're talking standard fundamentalist standards, sure. But, there are many Christians out there who do not feel that modern-day homosexuality is counter-Biblical.

      Just saying that there is certainly room for debate on this issue.

  119. jdens says

    What is this "gay agenda" people keep accusing Glee of pushing? To be equally respected and accepted? How sinister.

    The character of Kurt is beautifully acted by Chris Colfer, and if this portrayal engages the sympathies of those inclined to condemn homosexuality, then that can only be a good thing in my opinion.

      • Matt T. says

        So, pushing for respect and acceptance is now sinful? Are you a member of the Westboro Baptist Church?
        Jesus wasn't a big fan of prejudice, hate, judgement, and self-righteousness. He was a big fan of loving the sinner, and realizing that we all deserve to be treated exactly as badly as we treat gays.
        We talk like they're some kind of disease when we've all got our own crap in our lives too. Why is this? Why is it that a gay kid will be disowned by his parents and treated like a freak, but just about everyone else can be saved, forgiven, and eventually accepted again?
        We are so backwards.

        • Russell says

          acceptance of sin,,, yes that is sinful. what if glee has an episode condoning murder? maybe thats a little hyperbolic… what if glee has an episode condoning stealing. that seems like a bad thing to me. (and to JESUS).

          i'm not sure what brand of soapbox your standing on, (old spice?) i didn't say anything about "gays", as you called them, being diseased. i also didn't treat anyone like a freak… i certainly didn't disown anyone… i'm sorry if i touched a bitterness in your life…

          i was simply pointing out that just as if glee were pushing the tolerance of any sin, it is sinful to push tolerance of homosexuality…

          now can we expect the unsaved to act saved no.. but i certainly don't want my kids watching it…

          • KMR says

            It seems to me that there are many people who refuse for whatever reason to put themselves in a homosexual's shoes. They tout "hate the sin, love the sinner" as if it were a badge of honor forgetting that to a homosexual their "sin" does not feel like a choice but more of an attribute of who they are. Therefore what they hear from us is simply hate. They say we can't tolerate this sin in our community forgetting that to a homosexual that means we can't tolerate THEM in the community.

            Regardless of what you believe, it matters how you come across to other's. For what group of people were ever won to Christ from those they felt couldn't stand them? And right now, the church's traditional stance on homosexuality sounds like we simply can't stand them. No wonder they want nothing to do with us. And we should be ashamed of ourselves because of that. Hurting people should want to be around us, not run screaming in the opposite direction. I may be wrong but it sounds like to me that this is the point Glee is trying to get across.

          • jdens says

            KMR, the more I read Matt T's and your comments, the more I wish I could buy you both a coffee (or your beverage of choice). Seriously. And not just because I tend to agree with what you say, but because in your comments I sense the love of Christ. Cheers (virtual beverage toast) and thanks.

          • Matt T. says

            You did touch a bit of bitterness in my life, but frankly, just about every day I have to listen to people using the name of my God to justify hatred, judgment, irrational fear, and close-minded selfishness.

            I know you never referred to them as freaks or a disease, but your language implies this, as do the actions of most of modern Christianity towards them. You basically said that it's sinister to push for tolerance of them as people. I've said it once, and I'll say it a million times if I have to–every single one of us is IMPERFECT. What you do to or say about gays you have to say to me equally, because I'm pretty screwed up too. And then I'll have to say it right back to you, because so are you. So is everybody.

            You see what I'm getting at here? We can single out and ostracize people, we can make them out to be worse than we are, we can widen the rift and dig ourselves a nice little grave. Or we can be sinners united in our imperfection by a God who sees what's good about us.

          • jdens says

            Your first paragraph reminds me of something an Anglican priest said in his sermon recently: "Sometimes when I look at what is being done in the name of our faith, I despair." And it was so true that in that moment it seemed like we all felt that throb of despair. He went on to say, "But there is another way" and used the example of Desmond Tutu. I'm not going to preach his sermon here, obviously, but just wanted to thank you, Matt T, for being part of that other way, the way that doesn't make me despair of our faith.

          • jdens says

            Russell, I just want to point out that comparing homosexuality with murder and theft is a mistake. You may look at them all as sins, but the fact is that murder and theft actively harm someone else. Homosexuality, as an orientation, does no harm, and homosexual behaviour does no harm as long as it takes place in the context of a loving, respectful relationship, the same as heterosexual behaviour. It seems to me that what so many people have done (Christian and non) is *make* that orientation harmful to the homosexual through ostracising and shaming, and force the behaviour to take place outside of a marital relationship. It seems to me that there is no harm in homosexuality except for what we are imposing on it. Anyway, you are of course free to think anything in the world is sinful, but I object to the right to impose your idea of sinfulness on everyone else. Homosexuality is not a threat to you.

            I should also say that I come from a family and a background that encourages much the same attitude as you've expressed here, but I'm so thankful that I encountered a different way of seeing things. I'm also grateful that I got to witness a till-death-us-do-part, loving, lesbian relationship. It's not that often that I see such devotion in any couple, regardless of sexuality. I think of them and wonder how on earth we could wholesale villainise a group of people that includes these two? It's like we're actively seeking to undermine loving, faithful relationships. Considering Jesus' commandments to love, that seems far more sinful to me.

          • Matt T. says

            I once heard it said, in response to all the "homosexuality attacks the sanctity of marriage; we have to defend marriage; traditional families and their values are under attack" that (paraphrased) if gay marriage decreases the holiness of your marriage, there was something fundamentally wrong in your marriage to begin with.
            Can't remember who said it, though. Or if it was even someone famous. Might've just been someone I know. Oh, well, it's a good philosophy.

          • verity3 says

            Russell, is it possible that the behavior is a sin, but the orientation is not? That certain homosexual actions are prohibited in Scripture, and disobedience is sin (and we all sin), but that homosexuality is not in and of itself disobedience?

            I don't want to push semantics too much, but if certain homosexual actions are sinful *and homosexuality is not*, then when we call homosexuality sinful, we are *slandering* people. And one of the things Scripture commands us not to do is slander. Now, calling the actions sinful will strike some as slanderous too, but using the lens of Scripture, it is possible to conclude they are wrong in regard to the behavior *but right in regard to the orientation*.

            In our efforts to love people with the truth, I think it is important to make sure that that is what we're doing. For what it's worth, Russell, I do hear the love in a lot of what you're saying.

          • KMR says

            I hear your viewpoint being pushed around a lot in more love minded churches lately. The only question I would have is what homosexual actions are considered sinful. All the sexual ones, just the sexual ones outside a committed relationship, sexual acts as a part of worship (quite widespread in Biblical times), committed relationships with abstinence or none of the above? It is a certainly a challenging and a very complex issue especially once the issue is studied in depth.

          • Matt T. says

            It seems to my memory (though I may be wrong) that the Bible only ever prohibits homosexual acts–men lying with other men, etc.
            While I debate in my mind whether or not even those acts would be wrong, I think I decided long ago that being gay is no more sinful than being heterosexual and tempted to lust towards the opposite sex–it's not a problem until that temptation becomes a failing.

          • jdens says

            I don't think homosexuality as an orientation was recognised in biblical times, so it really couldn't be addressed. I think I remember reading that there are, at most, some 6 references to homosexual acts in the entire Bible; there are many more that could be used to support, say, slavery. It just doesn't appear to have been a significant issue to the writers. And of course, Jesus had nothing to say on the subject, summing up all the commandments with love. Maybe we should be looking at relationships not in terms of heterosexual or homosexual, or married or unmarried, but in terms of whether these relationships are loving, respectful, life-giving?

          • KMR says

            Yes. I've heard the six verses rule also. However, in response to Matt T, Paul mentioned women lusting after other women in Romans I so yes lesbianism in some form was mentioned. However again context must be considered, word usage, the culture of the times, etc must be considered before ever concluding with certainty exactly what Paul was condemning. I've done quite a bit of study and still am not sure. For me personally, in issues regarding ambiguity, I tend to err on the side of love.

            I Peter 4:8 – Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.

          • Matt T. says

            Well, again, the word he uses is "lusting," and there's a big difference, I think, between attraction and lust.

          • KMR says

            Yep. A lot of people believe this series of verses was in reference to temple prostitution going on at the time (straight people having same-sex relationships as a way of worshiping whatever god they wanted to at the time). Read the verses with that in mind and it does shed a whole new light on things IMHO.

          • Matt T. says

            I'm wondering–where are you getting all this historical context and such? It would be very interesting to have access to that information.

            Or is this another one of those things where I basically have to major in it? ;)

          • KMR says

            Most of it, I just google. Anything I want to know about I just look up. And then I read everything I find – everything. I try my best not to pick and choose depending on what I want to hear. It's amazing the stuff out there that is written by different people from different walks of life. Plus, I have some seminary friends so if I have a question about language or verbage, I can ask them. I certainly don't know as much in-depth information as people who've been to seminary but I'll say that I've probably at the very least understand the basics of the controversy now. For the most part, I can hold my own.

          • KMR says

            By the way, I just want to add that this information is not anything you can absorb in just one afternoon of reading. It really does take quite a bit of time since you need to look things up using different word choices, different Bible verses, cross reference, etc. But I really like to read and study so for me it's something I enjoy doing.

          • Russell says

            You all sound like very nice people. I'm glad there are people out there who are so dedicated to tolerance, acceptance of all lifestyles…

            I, however, am dedicated to the Lord and the fact remains, no matter how much you philosophize, or ponder. We are humans, created beings under God's law; to break that law is sin. Homosexuality breaks God's law, whether in action or orientation. By no means am i saying i haven't broken His law as well. "The law is not there for the righteous but the unrighteous to reveal their sin" and when sin is revealed to me in my life i confront it and through the power of the holy spirit try to purge it from my life. This needs to happen just as much in a homosexuals life as it does a liar, thief, murderers.

            to that point, i agree that it isn't right to compare homosexuality and murder. actually that is a biblical principle. but you might want to sit down because it doesn't say what you were hoping. 1 cor. 6:18 says "Flee from sexual immorality, every sin a person can commit is outside the body but the person who is sexually immoral sins against his own body"

            sexual immortality is the greek word Porneian, which means sexual idolatry, putting your sexual desires above what the lord designed for sex to be.

            i love people too. i am a sinner. homosexuality is wrong.

          • KMR says

            The word is porneia, not porneian. And just because I choose to educate myself so that I am more able to fully know what is just does not mean I am not also dedicated to the Lord. Knowing the other side of the argument (which by your statements you demonstrate that you most certainly do not) can only strengthen my witness to other's.

          • KMR says

            Your argument reminds me of a post Jon did on why Christians love to argue with non-Christians using the Bible. (For ex. Christian : "The Bible says….", non-Christian : "I don't believe in the Bible.", Christian after a pause : "But the Bible says…"

            Arguing with a homosexual and saying "But the Bible says…" does nothing for the homosexual because they do not believe the Bible says that. They believe you are interpreting it wrong. If you truly want to be able to refute them intelligently, then at the very least you need to know how they are interpreting the Bible and approach your argument from that point. Just quoting Romans I, I Corinthians ( and not the verse you mentioned above but rather 6: 9-10), or any of the other FOUR Bible verses on the subject does nothing to support your viewpoint.

          • KMR says

            By the way, Russell, I beg your apologies for correcting you on Porneian. I've always heard porneia used, but I have found references also for porneian so obviously I was wrong.

          • Russell says

            A. the word used in the Greek new testament in that passage is Porneian (porneia with an accusative plural singular ending). Reguardless of what you have heard.

            B. The only thing i have to give to a non-christian is the bible. why would i argue from any other standpoint. without it i am the same as him. not to mention the fact that i wouldn't argue with a non-christian about this.

            C. You are a Christian right? because your lack of belief that quoting scripture has power or influence in every conversation doesn't show much faith in Our Lord. read 2 tim 3:16 again…

            D. i might have to be done talking with you about this. You seem to care more about how something is interpreted than what it means. there is a huge difference. to your point, if we aren't on equal grounds as to what the Bible is, then there is no need to continue this discussion.

          • Matt T. says

            A few responses:

            B. Out-and-out evangelism works sometimes, in the right circumstances, but I'm not really leaning so much that direction anymore. We're living in a world where everyone who doesn't live in a tribe in the jungle knows who Jesus is and knows the story. Hearing about it won't convince most. There is a Christian author, I believe her name is Katherine Paterson, but I'm not sure, who said that the best way to convert others is to live a life that shows a light that intrigues others as to its source. I believe this is the most effective way.

            C. Belief in God is not dependent upon belief in the Bible–I'm talking here absolute belief, the kind that says the Bible is true in its every word, God-breathed. If you believe the Bible has NOTHING for you, that none of it is accurate or helpful, then yeah, I would question your faith. In my case, the Bible has some contradictions, some philosophical questions that it raises but doesn't really answer. I view it as what I've more or less come to believe it is–a firsthand, eyewitness account of human interactions with God, flawed as such, but full of truth and useful application. God's truth is all around us; many elements of it cannot be found in the pages of a book alone.

            D. Yes, there is a difference between how something is interpreted and what it means, but the two are incredibly interdependent. And the issue of homosexuality seems to come down to how things have been interpreted and translated. It's important to get to the meaning, but you have to go through the interpretation to get there. It's crucial.

          • jdens says

            As to D, this seems to be the point at which a lot of impasses are reached. Since the Bible has been appealed to as an authority condoning slavery and the subjugation of women in the past, the dangers of misusing it seem great. So, Russell, I'd like to know, if you care to explain, how you approach the Bible as an authority, and how you decide which laws are necessary to follow (the breaking of which is sin) and which ones belonged to the culture of the time.

          • Russell says

            there are 3 kinds of laws
            civil law –
            those laws in the bible that pertained to the nation of Israel at that time, and are no longer applicable to us in a different time and nation. ( slave issues, stonings, etc.)

            ritual law-
            those laws that pertain to the sacrificial system of the Jews prior to the return of Christ (special hand-washings, etc.)

            the bible is the inspired word of God. it is Godbreathed. it is absolute truth. to say that it is any less brings into question the impeccability, omniscience, and all the other big words of God.

            Moral law-
            Those universal truths that present God's Moral standard to which humans should adhere. (ten commandments, shema, etc.

          • Matt T. says

            "the bible is the inspired word of God. it is Godbreathed. it is absolute truth. to say that it is any less brings into question the impeccability, omniscience, and all the other big words of God."

            I don't believe it does. That's just my perspective, of course, and it comes from someone who really can't take the entire Bible as the absolute word of God. Not that I simply chose not to believe that, but that short of my discovering incredible evidence to the contrary, I simply -can't- believe it. Honestly, I somewhat envy people who are able to believe it as absolute truth. But I'm not one of those people.
            It's not to say that God couldn't have written it himself, because clearly, he could have. It's not denying his omniscience, his omnipotence, what have you. I think there are a number of reasons he allowed the people with whom he interacted to write their accounts of that experience. The Bible is now a collection of those experiences.
            I guess what I'm saying is that one's faith doesn't have to suffer over it. As I've said before, the Bible is a source of truth–but not the only one.

          • jdens says

            OK, so which of those categories would the stipulations about women in some of the epistles fall into? Do all New Testament instructions fall into the category of moral law by default? (I'm trying to fully understand your perspective, not trying to lay a trap or anything.)

            A few thoughts on "God-breathed" and "absolute truth":

            Sometimes when people qualify the word "truth" with "absolute", it seems to me that they mean not only that absolute truth exists, but that there is one and only one perception of it that is whole and correct, and that's their own. I think the Bible is absolutely truthful in its portrayal of individuals and societies striving and often failing to live in communion with God and each other. I even believe it's God-breathed. But I think that may mean something else to me than it does to you. Because when I hear "God-breathed", I think of what else God breathed into life. Us. And yet no one is insisting that humans are infallible, inerrant, or always reflecting the character of God. Yet we are part of (absolute) truth as well. And in our fellow human beings we can also encounter God if we're paying attention. But we don't make the mistake of confusing each other or any text with God Godself, or we risk idolatry.

            I also believe that universal moral laws can be found in our sacred text as in others. I just don't think homosexuality falls into that category.

          • verity3 says

            Is it possible, though, for someone to be a celibate person, with his/her thought-life under control, who nevertheless finds those of the same sex more attractive, but chooses not to dwell on that attraction… and this person is not currently failing to submit this area of life to God?

            I guess I am trying to point out the difference between a "lifestyle choice," and "orientation" as a recognition of one's own feelings. Is it your position that the two are the same?

          • Russell says

            Thank you for being polite.

            We might disagree on this issue, but as long as we are respectful to one another i see no reason to not discuss it. (that was a bit of a stab at KMR up above us…)

            Think about it in terms of sin (universal) outside of sin (specific). i have the desire/orientation, if you will, to steal something that is quite expensive. though i don't in fact steal it, the desire to do so is a result of my sin nature. and therefor sin.

            its hard to swallow, but it is sin. this hypothetical person we're discussing is one of the best Christians that i hypothetically know. by no means would i ostracize him (or any other non-christian) for the fact that he, simply put "likes dudes," he is a much stronger soldier for Christ than i.

            Prior to the fall of Adam, humans had the choice. sin or don't sin.
            after the fall they lost that choice. humans sin. they cannot not sin.
            after the death and resurrection of Jesus that choice has been restored (through the Holy spirit)
            someday in heaven, we will finally only be able to not sin.

          • Matt T. says

            Regardless of what you think of KMR's conduct, is the "stab" actually necessary? Can't we just be respectful about this?

          • verity3 says

            It seems to me that the desire to sin is the result of temptation, not the sin nature. The sin nature causes us to actually commit the sin. I'm not sure how it is beneficial to view ourselves as sinning when we are tempted. Jesus was tempted, and yet did not sin.

          • verity3 says

            I also see the human condition post-fall differently:
            –After the fall, humans still had the choice not to sin. They still bore the image of God. But the image was marred, and the initial sin set them up to fail again and again (though not all the time.)
            –After the death and resurrection of Jesus, He has initiated the *process* of recovering His image in us. We *are* redeemed in that we are sealed, but we *are being* redeemed in that we still sometimes choose to sin. Hopefully not as often as before.
            –Someday in heaven, we will finally only not sin. I'm not sure that it's because the choice will be taken away from us. I don't recall Scripture getting that specific.

            I wonder if it is actually more destructive to God's image in us, when we take on more guilt than He intends, or when we mistakenly feel that we should have arrived at perfection already in this life. That would seem to be false guilt.

          • Matt T. says

            The reason I have trouble accepting homosexuality's immorality is what the church's stance on it does to people. When someone in the church hits his or her teen years and discovers they're gay, it's pretty much a solid guarantee they're going to grow up seriously screwed up. Many of them go through endless therapies and emotional breakdowns. Some of them get into heterosexual marriages in order to attempt to cure themselves, which often only results in a broken family being left in the wake of the whole thing.
            It's really hard for me to deal with that and accept it as something that God wants. It's clear that at the very least the church's attitude about it has to change. I'm just not sure how.

  120. Tasmanian says

    Modern Family – ha ha ha ha funny.

    Best Christmas Album Ever? EVER? What about Ray Charles? Il Divo? Third Day? Hillsong Double Album? City on a Hill Christmas? Sandi Patti singing "O Holy Night" (don't knock it til you've heard it!) I kinda like Mariah Carey's album because I dislike the snowy jingly songs but like the others.

  121. tiffany says

    oh, and i see no christian undertones. actually, it's the opposite in my opinion. sometimes i think they even take little stabs at christians.

    ps i LOVE modern family!!!!

  122. ashlinkh says

    I'm a Glee fan. I guess there are things that are semi-sketch… but unfortunately, if we tried to get away from everything with some sketchness we would lock ourselves in a dark room.

    FULLY agree about Mumford & Sons….they're the jam.

  123. Mike says

    love the subplot of those "too cool/hip/smart/holy" for "primetime tv". as if non-primetime is better? days of our lives and oprah is pretty good stuff i guess… as an alternative to burning in hades… maybe. if you're set on not watching tv, why bother commenting on a post about a tv show? maybe you should watch more tv so you have less time to be sanctimonious on blogs. crap, i was about to type "i don't ever post on blogs" but now i've ruined it… btw, Glee Rocks!

  124. says

    I LOVE Glee. My boyfriend is often miffed when I borrow his cable memory to DVR it, but he doesn't REALLY mind.

    I think that the Grilled Cheesus episode definitely captures how a lot of people view Christians. At first I saw it from the front-row Baptist point of view, got all offended, and decided I didn't like it anymore, but then I looked at it from another angle. People see us that way. God is our wishing well. We have come to "Cheezus" moments and then start throwing prayers (read: demands) into the wishing well. What more could we possibly ask for than such a transparent insight into the mindset with which non-believers view us?

  125. James says

    I used to be a diehard fan, but now its become another show that I watch to entertain myself but wouldn't mind missing. Also, I watch because my friends are usually watching it in my apartment when I get back from class. I'm apathetic now because I'm a stickler for consistency and character development, which I now see doesn't happen in the show (this could be very much up for debate though). I hate it when a plot detail is resolved at the end of a show and everything returns to the status quo. Then again, perhaps my problem is trying to find a good story in a show who's plot is really just an excuse for the music.

    Also, Glee is Hollywood's version of high school, not the real thing. No real high schoolers look that old or that gorgeous.

  126. hannahruthie says

    I watched the first two episodes of the first season. And I loved it, until the second episode they acted out sex on stage. I don't care if that's the worst thing that's happened or if the whole show isn't actually like that. If they have enough guts to do it once, I don't want to support any of it. But just as there are lovers and haters of Glee, I don't think many of them would "convert" to the other side. If you're a gleek, you're a gleek.

  127. Erin says

    I like Glee but really, only for the music. I don't care for the writing or acting much. Sometimes I appreciate the way they approach topics and sometimes I find myself vowing to never watch another episode (this was the case after the Britney Spears episode where not only was the writing and acting bad, but the music was too. I didn't like Britney when Britney sang it.)

    But I like musicals and I relate to music often so I like to watch stories that are about or incorporate music. I really like that the kids have moments where they go into their heads and sing about what they are feeling. Because, I'm pretty sure I do that too.

  128. rbcphotogirl says

    "I would sooner slow dance with the Golden Compass or share a sleeping bag with a bunch of Harry Potter books. I hate that show and all Christians should." ah how you crack me up.

    i thoroughly enjoy glee… while not wanting my kids to watch it. hm. its mostly because i laugh at stuff i shouldnt find funny…. thanks alot jon for the forced self-reflection…sheesh

  129. says

    I have to agree with the first comment….Love it, but definitely questioned last week's "Grilled Cheesus" episode. I didn't jump on the Glee bandwagon until after seeing the first half of last season on dvd…the second half and the first episodes this year aren't up to the same calibur. And the fact Coldplay might be featured makes me want to vomit those slushies all over Ryan Murphy.

    I doubt it has Christian undertones given the fact Murphy also Exec Produced Nip/Tuck…did people look for them there?

  130. rosbergs3 says

    I'm going to have to watch this show as i didnt know it was so popular amoungst christians. Also, i'm not going to be freaked out about any "gay" characters. Gay people dont freak me out anyway so a gay character certainly wont. Anyway, its a TV show about a glee club. What do you expect? Mister macho, captain of the football team, dating the hot blond head cheelearder singing in the gay club….oh, i'm sorry i mean the glee club.

  131. Lindsay says

    I love Glee. It’s amazing and I’m not ignorant enough to think good tv has to agree with me. It’s art. It’s beautiful. And it’s awesome.

    As for Christmas albums, NSYNC’s “Home for Christmas” takes the cake.

  132. Scooter says

    You know at first I was less than thrilled by the whole Grilled Cheesus thing, and then I realized that there are times that my prayer life sounds exactly like Finn's. ME ME ME ME… Thank you Genie in a bottle who died on the cross for my sins! There are also times that Finn prays more than I do.

    I also realized that Finn was doing the same thing I do with many different things. He had an idol. I can't see a physical representation of God on Earth now so I will cling to the many things that appear to be worthy of my worship (Job, Spouse, Parents,etc) only to have them disappoint me without fail. Upon reflection, it was sobering reminder that before I start passing judgement on Finn's character, the creators, or the show, I should remember that there are times when the only difference between us is the grace that has been given to me that I didn't deserve.

    I have to disagree with the Mariah… not that I don't like her, but Glitter killed it for me.

  133. says

    I really have no choice given that one of the main female characters and I share the same name, so …. I'm a GLEEK!
    But aside from that i do enjoy Glee when I manage to catch it :D

  134. Steph says

    I was in my symphonic choir in high school (we were number 1 in the region!), and so alot of the drama is pretty similar to what i had to go through. i LOVE this show!

  135. says

    Gotta love the 264 comments to this entry…I am sure someone has sad something similar to what I am bout to say, but I don't have time to read 264 comments. That being said…

    I wrote a really long quippy comment…then it got deleted….sad day….here is the paraphrase.

    I love Glee, I love musicals, I love TV…it combines two of my favorite things. I know that it can be offensive, but I am pretty sure it is meant to do that. I have a friend that doesn't like to be upset at a TV show, she just wants to be entertained, and Glee will do that sometimes, but more than that I am pretty sure that the creator of Glee wants people to think about High School and those big social issues.

    As a Christian I would say, that shows like Glee with flawed characters are exactly the ones we should watch because it helps us think, use our brains to determine how to act and how to be Christians among those sort of people. The "Grilled Cheesus" episode was great. Kids today are encountering those big issues, like being forced to believe things they don't believe, how to comfort a friend of different beliefs, what to do when what you believe in fails, and how to interact with others who don't believe what you believe in a loving and non judgemental way.

    If you don't like musicals, you probably wont' like it though. But I always think you should give it a try.

  136. Katie says

    Love Glee!!!!! I guess that probably makes me a bad Christian, but having been in show choir in high school, I totally get it. Also just because you pretend that there are no gay people or non christian people in the world doesn’t make it true.
    Mariah Caray, not so much. But thats because I cant stand her voice. Just a matter of opinion.

  137. Amanda J says

    Hmmmmmm…In general, I love Glee, though the Grilled Cheesus episode left me with a horrible taste in my mouth.
    Skimming through the previous comments, I find it really interesting that there are so many interpretations about the episode, all from Christians. It just goes to show how diverse God made us.
    I can't shake the part of the episode where Sue's sister tells her, "God doesn't make mistakes", and asks Sue if she can pray for her.
    Maybe 'a horrible taste' is too strong. 'Twas weird. Definitely shed light on the misconceptions of what it really means to be a Christian, and made me wonder if I am perpetuating those thoughts.

    p.s. I was sooooo happy to see a Gospel choir in it's proper context, not on a street corner or some place random singing about nothing. But that's just me.

  138. Rachael says

    People throw around the word “Christian” all the time. Who’s to say the Glee bashers r even “Christians” and not pharasies? Or the ones who love it aren’t getwastedeveryweekendandshowuptochurchonsunday “Christians”? Who cares if Christians like Glee or not. How about we Pay attention to the fact that the secular world thinks we r all phonies bc of how we judge tv programs and the effects of those programs on our little Christian circles? Watch Glee if u want. U may want to check out “grilled cheesus” from last week. we all may learn how the “world” views us. Let’s not be like Adam Sandler’s(from waterboy Waterboy’s mom

  139. Chris says

    Was super hesitant to watch it, but some friends convinced me to watch a few episodes from Season 1, and now I'm hooked. The music is phenomenal…really talented performers on the show. I think it's a brilliantly written satire about high school life. It's very well done.

  140. ponderingbliss says

    I don't watch Glee simply because it gets on my nerves. Too much singing and as a Youth Pastor, I have plenty of teenage drama in my life without watching it on TV.

  141. Natalie says

    I. Love. Glee. It's quite a great show. And it's different from the other shows out there right now, which gives it a leg up. It tackles the hard stuff. I wasn't to thrilled they were doing a "religious" episode this past week, but it did send a good message with out pushing one side. (Oh, and I also love the new Mumfrod and Sons and Alpha Rev music!)

  142. says

    i LOVE glee! i was a theatre/choir geek in high school so it brings back fun memories…i understand why some wouldn't like it (some parts *are* a bit inappropriate), but mostly, i find it really entertaining. and for the most part, i think a lot of the issues are pretty true to high school life nowadays.

  143. HJD says

    I love glee AND hate glee. i love all things musical!
    the reason i say i hate it its because as some said already, it def has a message…. and not a Christian one. at least one time during an episode i fing myself saying "no!" to the tv hahah. but i continue to watch it because like i said… i love it and hate it!
    i would just say: watch the show with eyes wide open. Realize when it (or any show for that matter) is sending messages contrary to what you believe.

  144. Jessie says

    I am a middle ground person. :) I enjoy Glee, but I do not think it is a gift from God, nor do I think it is produced by Satan. Last week's episode was on religion and spirituality and it did not support one religion or another and as a tv show I think it handled religion maturely, but I did not agree with the message it spoke. I have often watched the show and found that it disagreed with the Christian doctrine, but that it is an entertaining tv show, and entertainment after all is the point of tv and movies. I would recommend watching it if you enjoy musicals.

  145. says

    Lovee glee! But my take is that if you are going to watch glee.
    Watch it from the first episode. I feel that people hate it because they haven’t seen it from the beginning, intstead just saw the “Brittany/Britney” episode because of the hype.
    And didn’t really enjoy it as much as a person who’s been watching and understanding the inside jokes and such.
    Besides, I give props to anyone who can really sing instead of just “kinda act & lip-sync” to the songs.

  146. moonchild11 says

    I actually loved the Grilled Cheesus episode. I thought it was very real- I mean, usually when a tv station does an episode on spirituality, I don't expect much, but, this one was good. They brought up real reasons why people don't believe in God and addressed them in honest ways.

    That being said, I think I am middle ground for Glee. Its amusing, and sometimes the music is done well, but the second those kids touch Journey or Queen, I want to cry and disinfect my ears. You just can't cover bands like those. So, the normal part of me likes it, but my music nazi side hates it.

  147. says

    Well, Jon. I will be a Fencesitter on this one.
    I have seen Glee Season 1 in its completion, and I did enjoy it.
    However, I have not gone out of my way to watch the following seasons of Glee. It's okay for fun, but I just don't care enough to ensure that I keep watching it

  148. says

    Being uber involved in all things music in high school, I'm surprised I haven't taken to Glee yet – possibly because I don't pay for cable, but all the same, my friends, who were from the same mold as me, are enamored with it. Can't get enough of Glee. I wonder if I'll be let down because of all the hype, but I will inevitably watch it at some point to make my own opinion. In short, I guess I don't feel like I'm missing out too much, or else I would've found the first season to watch already.

  149. jenmcd13 says

    Love Glee, love Modern Family. But you are sadly mistaken about the best Christmas Album. It is Harry Connick Jr, When My Heart Finds Christmas. Mariah's good, but Harry is the first CD played every Christmas at my house!

  150. KendraWare says

    I love Glee! It's one of the two shows that I actually bother making time for. Is it always perfect? No. But I agree with the people who have said it was much more balanced than they expected it to be…it even caused me to think about my own views of God and my relationship with HIm. I wasn't expecting that, considering that "tolerance" messages are usually all about accepting everything but Christianity. My least favorite episode so far is probably the Britney episode. Parts of it were hilarious, but that Jacob character became more than just unfunny; he was disgusting.

  151. jenn says

    I enjoy Glee, but not because I feel like it has Christian undertones or anything. They often go a bit too far, but so does almost everything on tv now. So should I watch it? I don't know… but I do. I'm certainly not obsessed with it like some people are though. (Oh, and for the record, House totally trumps Glee any day.)

  152. Frank Froese says

    I'm warming up to Glee… rather quickly. I'm finding the underlying genius of the writing staff, bringing forward issues that teenagers deal with in a way that, surprisingly, does not offend.

    And Mumford and Sons = the greatest invention since Grilled Cheesus!

  153. diana says

    I do enjoy Glee…but I was not a fan of the most recent grilled cheese episode. It's very evident that the creator, Ryan Murphy, is using the show as a platform for his views…and that's what "great" about America I suppose. However if the tables were turned and the show was a group of christians making slanderous comments toward the gay community…the world would be singing a different tune. There is no tolerance for christians…but they expect us to be tolerant when they make fun of us and call us hypocrites. Mostly the episode just made me sad. Sad that people have such a horrific view of christians and sad that a million people laughed about something so sacreligious as the grilled cheese-us. I really didn't find anything funny about that episode.

    • jdens says

      I understand why you feel that way; really, I do. But I don't think you're seeing it for what it was. Superficial, hypocritical religiosity was lampooned (grilled cheesus), but sincere, loving faith was respected (Sue's sister and Mercedes). In fact, they were so respectful of faith in that context, that many atheists felt that the show heavily favored religion.

      We need criticism, and we need the kind of honest, respectful dialogue that was going on in that episode. (But I agree it wasn't funny; I think I was crying through most of it.)

    • Matt T. says

      For the record, if they made a show about a group of Christians making slanderous comments towards the gay community, this Christian would be singing a different tune, too.

    • says

      I haven't seen any of Glee, but I have to say that this sounds quite backwards. O_o

      First off, we are called by God to love and serve our enemies…not make fun of them. By comparison, non-Christians have no such calling. So, if there was a show that did that [and I'm sure they're out there], I'd feel a LOT more dismayed than about ones that poke at Christianity [which, again, God told us would happen].

      Instead of playing this game of what's fair and what isn't, maybe we need to focus on just doing what Christ said instead. :)

  154. says

    I have a couple of questions for some of the other Christians out there:

    1. what exactly is the “homosexual agenda” that Glee is pushing?
    2. what is your purpose here in this world?
    3. if you are offended by a grilled cheese Jesus- why is that? Is your Jesus not big enough to fight a sandwich?
    4. do you think that if you ignore society it will just go away?
    5. have you ever considered that other people’s religious beliefs, questions, and doubts are valid?
    6. what kind of christianity worries about what other people thinks of it? Isn’t is strong enough to stand on its own- regardless of public opinion?

  155. Caitlin says

    I used to love Glee. The only thing that used to be wrong with it was the fact that I live in NZ and we got the episodes way after they aired in America so by the time they aired here everything had be spoiled for me. Then they covered Gives You Hell by The All-American Rejects and I will truthfully say they slaughtered that song. It was awful. After that I watched it less and less.
    Reading the comments I see there has been a episode on Christianity. I haven’t seen it as Glee isn’t even on here at the moment so I can only assume what the episode would’ve been like. I’m not looking forward to seeing it but it will be interesting to see their perspective/s.

  156. says

    Dear Jon: You obviously have never experienced "Songs for Christmas" by Sufjan Stevens, featuring:

    "Come on! Let's Boogey to the Elf Dance!"

    "What Child is This Anyway?"

    "Did I Make You Cry On Christmas Day? (Well, You Deserved It!)"

    "That Was The Worst Christmas Ever!"

    and last, but certainly not least,

    "Get Behind Me, Santa!, which features lyrics such as "I don't care what you say, Santa Claus, you're a bad brother, breaking into people's garage."

    If those don't get you into the Christmas spirit, nothing Mariah Carey produced ever will. :-)

    p.s. Yes, those are real songs. They're actually awesome.

    Oh, wait, this post was about some TV show wasn't it? I guess Glee is okay, but they won't have my full approval till they do a Sufjan cover. Check it out below.

    [youtube 0LFe02mhmYg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LFe02mhmYg youtube]

  157. says

    Satan is the executive producer of Glee. Not because it's unChristian or unChrist-like…but because it just really sucks! Unless you are like a 15 year old girl…it might be cool for 15 year old girls. Not twenty something guys like my friend tried to tell me…

  158. Erin says

    I'm with James Williams on the 3rd Christian Reaction (not having / watching Prime Time TV). There's always the internet if I really and truly wanted to watch it, but I couldn't get into the music so I know I wouldn't enjoy the show. I don't have time to watch it… but I don't think it's necessarily the worst thing since slow dancing with the Golden Compass! (BRILLIANT word picture, by the way!!).

    Harry Potter – I do love Harry Potter. I'd share a sleeping bag with the full set of books, hardcover special edition, in a heartbeat. I'm always willing to discuss why someone else doesn't like it if the dissenter has actually read all of the books and is exploring the themes – but those who stick their heads in the sand and wait for the 'fad' to blow over because Satan is behind it all, I have no time for.

  159. says

    I love Glee! I was in a show choir in high school (which in no way resembled the McKinley High Glee Club, but still…). Love the music, love the characters and Sue Sylvester makes me cackle with delight!

  160. Matt T. says

    Oh, I agree with you. I'm not sure where I stand on the issue of homosexuality's actual morality–I know what the Bible says, but I'm not a biblical literalist, and there's a whole bunch of historical context I don't have. But I do know where I stand on how modern Christianity treats homosexuals, and I hate it.

  161. wilson1971 says

    i dvr glee…i buy the episodes on itunes (although i wasn't a great fan of the britney spears episode)…i buy the tunes on itunes as well (i pick and choose though). i like the show and can see a lot of my own high school experience in there with which "group" people belong, seeing those who are able to crossover, empathizing with the feelings of the characters. i find my eyes welling with tears upon seeing the characters rallying around quinn or when they show moments between sue sylvester and her older sister; i find myself singing along with tunes that are re-invented and laughing at sue's many one-liners (although i'm a jane lynch fan due to the christopher guest movies). there are things that are objectionable but not so much that my filter can't catch it. i believe it's one of those shows that can hold a mirror up to our own lives and help solidify our own foundations.

  162. says

    I am a middle grounder. I like the music but we do not watch it. Remove the pregnant cheerleader and the gay boy then maybe. This is the part that makes it inappropriate for my 10 year old daughter.

  163. Kendra says

    I love Glee! And as far as the "Grilled Cheezus" episode goes, it was my impression that Finn was not praying to or worshiping a grilled cheese sandwich, but was drawn to prayer and contemplation by the image of Jesus that had been grilled into it. Now what he prayed for was to touch Rachel's boobs, I didn't really need that. But seriously how much of a stretch is it to think that a high school boy is praying to see or touch a boob.

  164. Mike Emerson says

    I started watching Glee over the summer, watching all of season one in 3 weeks, then picked up live this fall. I thought last week's episode was incredibly revealing and thought-provoking for Christians. It reminds us how we appear to outsiders.
    1) We pray for selfish reasons and seemingly to a mysterious God
    2) As Kurt showed, we are incredibly judgmental to the gay community. We will never win them to Christ by judgement, but only with love
    3) The "Cheesus" shows us how much people think of us as foolish.

    I am not saying the show is an example of great moral character, but it sure is useful for a youth group or a parent and teen to start a meaningful discussion.

  165. Bethany says

    I watched the first several episodes of Glee because all my friends said it was SO AMAZING, so I tried to not give up on it. Suffice to say I found it mostly boring and only occasionally funny, and wasn't thrilled about married Mr. Schu flirting with someone other than his wife. I later heard they took some pointless potshots at political conservatives and abstinence, so I haven't bothered trying it again.

    I do, however, love the music and the *idea* of it. So I guess I'm one of those rare middle-grounders. I personally don't like it but I totally get why others do.

    For the record, Modern Family is a bazillion times funnier than Glee, and Hanson's "Snowed In" is the best Christmas album ever. Don't take my word for the latter; take the word of a writer for Paste: http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2009/12/lis

  166. says

    I agree…people either love Glee, or hate it. I can definitely see both sides. However, for the people that bash it for its controversial topics, I have to say that it is a pretty accurate portrayal of what my high school was like. So if you want to be mad or disgusted, be MAD at the real world situations that our high schoolers face on a daily basis….just look at the bullying that happens in Glee every episode, and the hierarchy of the students. Tell me that doesn't happen in every school across America. Glee is simply raising awareness, and giving these issues a voice. Yes, it IS controversial, and unmoral…..but then again, so is our youth these days….

  167. Rebekah says

    I just like the song parts because i was a show choir gal in the early 90's. it's nice to watch it on the computer, catch the songs, and be done in less than 15 minutes…….
    AND we don't have tv at home but I am addicted to Castle. (i watch that show every chance i get)
    for anyone who grew up watching 'Moonlighting' with Bruce Willis, you would understand.

  168. says

    I watch Glee and LOVE it. Last weks episode "Grilled Cheesus" had me skeptical from the beginning. I was so afraid the whole episode would be about bashing christianity, but once again GLee pleasantly surprised me. The episode was about Kurt's father, who had a heart attack, being lifted up in prayer. Sue Sylvester shared why she does not believe in God (because of her sister who has downes syndrome). However, when visiting her sister in a home, as she shed tears, Sue asked her sister to pray for her. And at the end of the episode Kurt agreed to go to church with his friend on the Glee club and cried as her congregatiopn accepted him and sang with him. It was such a touching episode and I found myself crying that God can use a controversial show like Glee to show people his love. I have been a self-proclaimed "Gleek" from the beginning of the show, but even more-so after last weeks episode.

  169. karinwright says

    I love Glee! Of course, I was in multiple show choirs and music events as a high schooler so that part pulls me. Also, I love that the characters are flawed, neurotic, over the top … because high school felt that way at times. And in HS you're dealing with a caricature of life and that is what Glee is – a caricature. There's an NPR blog on glee going opera: http://www.npr.org/blogs/deceptivecadence/2010/10… which is I guess what I mean about Glee being overly dramatic, overly funny, and overly sweet.
    I like when they explore social issues; I can tell their agenda, but that doesn't detract for me the enjoyment of watching the characters encounter something heavy and incorporate it into their lives. Plus, I feel a sense of solidarity now with the characters when I sing loudly in the car to some song that finds its way to pertaining to my life at that moment. More of life needs to be a song.

  170. Bec says

    I happen to love Glee (Im a sucker for Journey songs!), although l feel that they went waaaaay overboard on the whole grilled cheeseus thing….at first it was funny, because it was more like they were ribbing on people who think they see Jesus face in water stains and bananas, but then it just got to be crude and a bit offensive….a few of the characters had some really sound stuff to say about faith and God, but for the most part, it was a dissapointing episode.

  171. Mike R says

    I love Glee! I really enjoyed how they handled last week's episode about faith and prayer. As for butchering Journey songs, that's impossible. Those songs were butchered from the start.

  172. says

    I wasn't going to comment, but then you mentioned loving Mumford and Sons and Alpha Rev. So, I thought- this guy should know I give more weight to his words because of his tunes. But then, I saw you had 334 comments already, so it's probably neither here nor there what I think. But, I'm with you. Glee is take it or leave it to me. The one episode I watched I thoroughly enjoyed, I just didn't become enraptured. I do feel like everyone I know either LOVES or HATES it, though. meh. I didn't see why people want to convert me into a Glee lover and I don't see why people feel the need to bash others for enjoying the show. (shoulder shrug)

  173. chad says

    I started watching the DVD's and I'll be honest…it's not that bad. The thing that keeps me coming back though is Jane Lynch. She's stinking hilarious.

  174. says

    I used to watch it, and can't push it on/nay-say it for anyone else.
    I just know that the show is well-written and -executed, which is what drew me in, but I couldn't stomach another sensually infused episode.
    Just wasn't my thing.

  175. Sharon says

    I love the singing and dancing; I hate the lame/weak adults, self centered kids, low morality, and stories that seem to be written by 20 year olds. So I would be happy seeing all of the musical numbers without any of the storyline….

  176. Larz says

    I'm reading this while this week's episode is on. Looked up to see the two cheerleaders laying in bed about to make out with each other? I might be done.

  177. says

    Call me crazy but I love themed shows (from a literary standpoint, theme is good) and I love Glee! Last week's episode represented most arguments, opinions and stages of spiritual journeys. Though the flying spaghetti monster argument (intended to protest Creationism in schools) was misused.

  178. says

    Recent episode mocking Christianity, exalting atheism, and as always sympathizing with gay rights and "I'm just born that way" are definitely reasons to STAY AWAY. By the way We're ALL "born that way" – it's called sin.

    • Matt T. says

      Just a question, because even as a young teenager it was strange to me. I am a Christian, but I have no clue why I'm universally expected to believe it's necessary for there to be no gay rights.

      I mean, if they're not Christians, and they're not hurting anyone, why should they have to follow my rules? And anyway, our "activism" isn't winning us any converts. It's the most counterproductive thing.

      Christians are against too many things. We need to find things to stand for instead.

      Also, every day, I sympathize more and more with Anne Rice. I really do.

  179. Mark Burnside says

    You do realize that by making this post, you are guaranteeing that 74% of all comments will be "I'm halfway in between." Mankind is always inclined to go against the flow of anything anyone else says. FACT. Not really, but it sure seems like it.

  180. chris spruiell says

    The music part is good because they do a really good job with it.. Until they go into some fantasy world and act like they're in a music video.. And the gayness is overwhelming. Just saying.. Its very non-manish (new word).

  181. atomD21 says

    My wife is an absolute Gleek. She watches that show like it is her religion! No, not really, but she really loves it. I like it, but it's not the end of the world if I miss it. I can see how some Christians would be really upset by it, but typically, those are the same people that get upset by anything not solely praising Jesus…

  182. Holly says

    My housemates watch Glee almost religiously, as does my best friend. But I just don't like it. I tried to avoid drama when I was in high school, and I don't like TV shows where it's overblown.

    And I think the episode from two weeks ago, "Grilled Cheesus" was an interesting way to look at things, as well as being more than a smidge blasphemous, and that's something I hope we as Christians aren't already desensitized to.

  183. Rachel says

    My comment is so long that it has to be more than one post.

    A few questions to consider…

    Before I begin, I would just like to say that I'm not judging anyone who does or does not watch Glee. I'm not sure that it's absolutely right or wrong for anyone to watch it–we all have different situations, and we should decide on what to do through prayerful consideration.

    1. Would Glee-haters hate it less if it weren't for the gay issues?

    What if Glee didn't have Kurt, and instead had characters engaged in a different type of sin? Would it upset people as much? Sometimes we put homosexuality as the worst of all sins. It's true that God has definitely cracked down hard on it in the Bible (Sodom & Gomorrah) and it represents an enhanced tolerance for sin that wasn't around in our society 50 years ago, but God has also cracked down super hard on idol worship (the Israelites) lying (Annas & Sapphira) and ungenerousity to the poor (the sheep and the goats).

    • KMR says

      I understand exactly what you're saying. I just wanted to point out though that according to the Bible Sodom and Gomorrah was not destroyed just for homosexuality (and there are tons of theologians who go even further and state that homosexuality wasn't even among their long list of sins). See Ezekiel 16:49-50, Jeremiah 23:14 In verse 50 of Ezekiel 16, it did mention that Sodom was guilty of doing detestable things before the Lord but the verse didn't mention what they were. And if you notice, the word is plural so they did many detestable things – not just homosexuality. To say that Sodom and Gomorrah was specifically a crack down on homosexuality might be overstating it a bit.

    • Matt T. says

      From what I've seen, the answer to your last question is no.

      Witchcraft and homosexuality=the sins you can never commit in fiction.

      Most other sins seem fine, except maybe nudity, depending on who you ask.

  184. Rachel says

    2. Is it really just entertainment?

    Quite a few commenters have said that it's just entertainment, it's made by non-Christians so we shouldn't expect anything better, we live in a sinful world and can't hide under a box, etc. I don't think anything is just entertainment–every show, movie, blog, or website promotes a message. God tells us that in EVERYTHING we do, we should do it for the glory of God. We can't compartmentalize our lives–this is God time, this is entertainment time–we must glorify God at all times. Maybe we need to spend some time asking God if watching Glee glorifies Him. Maybe for some of you the answer is yes–it's building a connection with someone God has put into your life to witness to. Maybe for some of you the answer is no–it's not helping your jouney with God and it's desensitizing you to sin.

    • says

      I think that before -anyone- preaches this idea, that one needs to take a good, hard, honest look at oneself and ask, "Does every single iota of thing -I- do out of glory to God?". And, well…that can be a difficult question to tackle.

      Besides that, I don't think anyone is saying that we should try and separate "entertainment time" and "God time" as far as living Godly lives goes. Rather, I think what people are saying is that you can't expect worldly people to adhere to Christian principles. The Bible also says, "Be in the world, and not of it." It doesn't say, "Make everyone do exactly what you want them to do, or they are some kind of mean jerks." Rather, it says, "Love your enemies."

      Forcing your viewpoint on people isn't a loving act. "If I have not love, I have become as a clanging gong or noisy cymbal." Think on -that- for a bit. Having all the "correct" theology isn't worth a hill of beans if you aren't practicing love towards other people…even those whom you dislike or don't agree with religiously.

      The Lady Speaks.

  185. Rachel says

    I agree that we certainly can't expect lost people to think, act, and create like Christians–that's outrageous! So is hiding under a box so that we see and hear no evil until we die and go to heaven. Co-workers swear. Advertisements contain images that inspire lust. Our friends and families encourage us to do whatever feels good at the time–financially, emotionally, and physically. This is a fallen world. This is life, and we can't control everything that we and our children are exposed to. But we do have control over some things, and what plays on our own television sets is one of them. I think this is a huge struggle for American Christians, and I think we watch way too many things for artistic and entertainment purposes that do not glorify God and draw us farther away from Him.

  186. Mel says

    Where on Earth do you draw the line?? GLEE may be garbage, but are the countless "F" words in "Littile Lion Man" by Mumford&Sons. I'm only playing the devil's advocate as I love BOTH GLEE and M&S. I just mean, what's the difference and why condemn one without the other??

  187. K8iebug says

    I am a HUGE Glee fan, last season my friends and I would get together every Monday night to watch Glee. I have always LOVED musicals, and their Dream On episode last season was EPIC, NPH made it happen! I like that they tackle tough issues, I cried last week over the Grilled Cheesus episode, I was actually shocked that they brought up the need for God on a nationally televised TV show, but props to FOX for planting that seed, I hope it got a lot of people thinking about who they rely on in times of need, and that God can truly handle all of our issues.

  188. says

    I liked Glee the first season, but now I'm kinda over it. I think the story line stagnated a bit, so I un-DVRed it. But can I just say Alpha Rev? AWESOME! Now that's some singing I could listen to over and over!

  189. says

    I watch and like Glee, but I LOVE Modern Family. And why do I love it? Because it's the funniest serie I've seen in the past few months. And I see no problem in laughing and having fun (and, I have to say, I have many gay friends and that kinda helps me to like Mitchell and Cameron very much, even totally believing what Bible says about homossexualism).
    I must confess, though, that every now and then I get confused about letting other people know I watch these series. What if they sin because of what these series "teached" them? That's the most important problem to me.

    Much love.

  190. Sandy says

    GLEE GLEE GLEE
    i love that show!!
    i dont know what your problem is
    but its so good get over it glee is here 2 stay

  191. Carolyn says

    Because I am a mom of a kid with Down syndrome, I'm practically required to love this show. Everyone I know in the "special needs" community is ga-ga over it because of all the positive, inclusive messages it has about kids with special needs. Two actresses with Down syndrome! Wow, we haven't gotten exposure like that in twenty years, since "Life Goes On." So, if my kids went to that high school, my kid with Ds would be loved and accepted and my other two, "typical" kids would be mocked and ridiculed for their beliefs, moral decisions and lack of skanky outfits. Hmm…

  192. Ashley says

    I noticed that after this week's episode, the amount of people proclaiming their love for Glee has dwindled…could it be because they had girl-on-girl kissing, or that a cheerleader took a parapalegiate's virginity?
    Don't get me wrong–I LOVE the music! Even songs I didn't like before, give me a whole new perspective. But I can't endorse or push aside any longer the filth that they are allowing in my home.

    • says

      I don't see how two girls kissing is any more filthy than a girl and a guy kissing. [Then again, I've no interest in Glee, so…]

      IMO, calling it "filth" seems like you're taking things a bit too seriously. If you don't like it, then don't watch it. But you also don't have to go overboard about it.

      The Lady Speaks.

      • says

        Some people seem to think that the knowledge of "alternative lifestyles" is some kind of brain-poison, ie- that it will actually harm you, or especially your kids. It's strange, since no one has any problem with their kids knowing about the existence of murderers, warmongers, arsonists, bank robbers, drunks, kidnappers, terrorists, pirates, etc. Many of them freely let their kids watch depictions of all the above. But girls kissing other girls? Egads, don't let the kids see it! It will warp their minds!

        • Matt T. says

          I really agree with you on this. I think there's no problem telling a child about homosexuality. It's not like they're going to say, "Woah, homosexuality EXISTS? I've just decided I'm gay now."

          Either way, I've always thought this selective Christian entertainment thing was weird. I do acknowledge that certain people struggle with certain things, and that someone with a lust problem is going to be more careful about sexual content than violence. What I'm referring to is the whole "protecting your kids" thing, because like you said, not many people seem to have a problem with exposing them to all of that stuff. I've known Christians who've let their kids watch "Saving Private Ryan" before they hit 10, but wouldn't let them listen to Christian rock bands.

          I think it might be a perspective thing, though. I'm a media major, so I've read the studies, and most of them indicate that letting your kids watch movies or TV shows about all the criminals you mentioned actually might harm them (there's a correlation between watching that stuff when you're really young and growing up much more fearful, and could possibly also make you more aggressive), whereas no such evidence exists that knowledge of homosexuality will do so.

  193. Jerry_R says

    Hey, this is maybe related. Sometimes when I am listening to pandora, i will be really enjoying a song, then I look to see who it is, and then I don't like it anymore. The first example that comes to mind is one day I was listening, really enjoying some song I hadn't heard before, then I looked and saw it was Green Day, and was like, "nope, sorry, don't like that. gonna skip this one." So sometimes I just don't look.

  194. lechroom says

    GLEE is a little like the iPad to me. I'm aware of its existence, and I know that many people have strong opinions about it, but it has yet to really make a difference in my life. What little TV time I have is usually spent watching old British comedies on Netflix.

  195. says

    Here's my confusion: A lot of Christians on this board are deeply offended by the homosexual content. Well, IMO, that's downright silly. The show, as far as I'm aware, wasn't designed by Christians. It's a worldly show.

    Why modern-day Christians keep expecting worldly things to adhere to Christian principles is absolutely beyond me. -_-;;;

    If you don't like the show, don't watch it. If you do, then just deal with the content. It's just a TV show, and shouldn't be THAT big of a deal.

    The Lady Speaks.

    • amandaleigh says

      THANK YOU. A wise man tagged me in a tweet today that said "we can't police morality. we have to rely on God to change people's hearts". Imposing Christian "principles" on people who don't understand the gospel is absurd.

  196. Melanie says

    I really enjoy Glee. I don't love it. I don't think every single episode is a good one. For example this week's kinda sucked. And though I do believe in the creator/producer using the show to teach acceptance and equality I also don't need to see certain things. (Like the girl on girl make out session in this past ep).

    I like the show for the music and the hope it may bring to people in high school who aren't the popular kids, but i also think as a Christian it's walking a very fine line for some of my sensibilities. That being said, I do watch it every week it see what those crazies are going to get up to and even though I can't stand Sue she's quite possibly the best character on TV right now.

  197. Bethany says

    I really wanted to like Glee when it came out, but I hate the agenda they're pushing. Every show is going to reflect the artists' worldviews, but they won't all serve as public service announcements. Glee, to me, feels like a lecture on why we should share the producers' values. I don't want to be lectured when I watch TV. That's not fun. And if I'm going to be lectured, then I at least want to support the lectures that promote a biblical worldview. Glee is just too over the top for me.

    But, the music is wonderful (hence my wanting to like it).

  198. Discussions says

    I love Glee, but it's soooo overtly sexual–especially the Britney Spears episode. I don't know about other people, but that's one of the things I really don't like. But dang, that girl who did the Slave for You (or whatever it's called) video can dance. :-)

  199. says

    You know what, I'm a liberal guy. I'm not a party-line guy (I do support the conservatives on unions and nuclear power), but I do lean liberal, particularly on social issues. I support gay rights. I support gay marriage. I support gay adoption.

    But I can't watch Glee, because it's the gayest thing I've seen since "300". A guy can support gay rights without actually being gay, or wanting to watch gay stuff.

  200. amandaleigh says

    Oh Glee. I think it's extremely silly on the surface, but underneath all of the satire and sarcasm, it deals with some extremely deep issues. It's like we are being given a tiny glimpse into the youth culture that teenagers work so hard to keep us out of. I don't watch it religiously, but I appreciate the talent of the cast, the glimpse into culture, and the tweet feast it provides. ; ) If you haven't given it a try, do. If you're too stubborn, you're missing out.

    • amandaleigh says

      LISTEN TO THEM. they're like the Avett Brothers but BRITISH! Their lyrics are thought provoking, their music is stimulating, and their talent is unrivaled. Some of their songs are extremly redemptive and may lead one to believe that they are Christians. I don't know whether that's the case or not, but if not, God is using them where they didn't intend to be used.

  201. Rachel B. says

    It is brilliant and horrific at the same time…I waffle back and forth between 1. and 2. It depends on the particular episode. The first season was awesome. This current season…not so much. Best analogy I can think of is The Matrix…they should have stopped after the first movie.

  202. Savedbygrace015 says

    I am a total gleek, but the episode about praying to a grilled cheese sandwich having the openly gay guy absolutely refusing prayer from his friends after his dad a major heart attack putting him in a coma ( his bff is a christian and goes to church) really disappointed me.
    Kurt (the openly gay guy) said to the glee club he didn't believe in God, how could he believe in someone who made him gay,and hate him for what he is,that just didn't seem right, and I hated that glee writers/producers put that in there. AND NOW, they are doing a rocky horror picture show themed episode, ugh, really why visit that at all!! I liked season one where it was alot cleaner. Glee is waaay out there now.

    • says

      Actually, I've seen gay people express those exact kinds of sentiments in real-life. Of all the reasons to dislike Glee, "portraying something that might realistically happen in real-life" is probably the weakest.

    • amandaleigh says

      friend,
      although it may not be the ideal message, it is real. I don't know how many gay friends you have, but that's how many of them feel. Christians need to be aware of that. And I think that the way the Glee producers portrayed Kurt's emotions about life, faith, and friendship is such an accurate picture of modern teenage culture. "clean" tv shows are nice, but they're not real. Glee is digging deep, and sometimes that's messy. there's always the off button..

    • timothy says

      @Savedbygrace while I found Kurt’s ideas about God painful they were perhaps the most real thing the show has ever done. I have many nonChristian friends, both gay and straight who feel the same way. So that may be the best reason for Christians to watch Glee, to catch a glimpse of how nonChristians actually think. That and to learn that dolphins are gay sharks.

  203. says

    I am one of those "middle ground" people. I love the music (I would kill or maim or possibly dismember to get tickets for the front row of Phantom or Wicked or most musicals….but I digress), but I hate the agendas and the general message. I would never consider it to have Christian undertones. I watch it online when I get bored, but I don't HAVE TO see it. So, yep, middle ground here.

  204. Joey says

    As a gay, born again christian ( who believes honouring the Lord by staying out of relationship for life, i just want make this clear in case any of you want to lynch me for dare to put the word gay and christian in the same sentence, and NO, I DONT MAKE ANY APOLOGY FOR BEING GAY, AS I HAVE NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER, AND I SHOULD KNOW AS I AM THE ONE WHO IS EXPERIENCING IT), i have there are times when some of themes i glee makes me uncomfotable and i can see how they glamourise things like pre marital relationship etc, however, i just want to point out that i dont think that it will affect born agian christians, eg in season 1 there was an episode glamourise stealing, i cant imagine any christians, after watching that , would go , oh, that looks great, may be i’ll try it sometimes. also i believe as christian living in the real world, it’s up to us to filter out those things against scripture teaching, as it is not possible/realistic to insulate from it. as for the openly gay theme on the show, i think they portrays quite realisticly what a lot of gay people are going through, and personally i think alot christians would benefit from watcing it, esp those who dont have gay friends, i think it might help them ( or at least i hope so) to be a little bit less judgemental towards gay community, and start taking resp for their own homophobic behaviours that make the gay community hate us so much, instead constantly shift the entire blame to the gay community, and have this all might attitude along the lines of ” if they dont come to Christ, it because they are dirty sinners, we have always welcomed them with open arms.” REALLY? anyway, i do think despite some un christian themes on the show, the overall writing and music are exceptional, and in my opinion, either you see the show as a wonderful gift to humanity or you blindly missed how wonderful it is.

  205. Chris says

    This show should definitely not be loved by any Christians and here is why… I don’t like to touch upon the gay thing because it is now politically incorrect to say anything bad about gay lifestyles, but I will say this, God did say “Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself”, which means God is not against people loving each other. God is not against guys loving guys and girls loving girls. But Here is what Jesus says “Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
    See men can love men, and women can love women, but once they lust after one another, it is a sin.

    This show bashes the Christian way of life. There’s bitterness, hatred, drug abuse, adultery, not to mention religion is absent from all television shows these days, and this one is no exception. Theres even one episode when they sing Beatles – Imagine. If you look up the lyrics to the song, its anti-Christianity, the first line of the lyrics are “Imagine there’s no Heaven” and follows up with later “And no religion too”. Fellow Christians, we have to open up our eyes to whats happening in America, Christianity is being attacked because, KJV 2 Corinthians 4:4 “In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not.” Basically this passage means those who arnt Christians are being blinded by Satan who has control over this world. It can also be applied to Christians who do not take the influencing power of Satan. Satan is influencing our culture. Glee is a bad show, because what it stands for is bad, and if you think I am wrong, then consider this. Television is only going to get worse and attack Christianity more, so if you accept Glee, then you might accept another show that goes against the Christian faith, and another and another. If you think I am silly for thinking this way, google “Family Guy magic baby”. This is only the beginning, Accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.

  206. says

    I have watched a few episodes of Glee, and what’s funny is funny. I mean really funny. And while I don’t expect non-Christians to have an accurate view of the Christian faith, it still bothers me when they don’t, so the episodes where they dealt with belief were realistic but also annoying. I guess I just don’t get why they can’t have characters hold to the beliefs that they say they have.
    Less importantly, their musical numbers have no apparent purpose, and I think that hurts the show. They don’t perform in front of audiences very often, yet they have elaborate costumes and backdrops. Does this afterschool activity (not a class where students earn credit) have a bottomless budget for studio musicians and fake snow? It makes regular musicals seem more plausible.

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