Not knowing if you were supposed to have watched the creation debate.

Did we vote on that? Was there a memo or TPS report that I missed?

You guys gotta give me a heads up next time. I watched exactly 0 seconds of the debate last night about creation between Bill Nye and Ken Ham. I didn’t even read tweets about it or blog posts. Today, when they started talking about it while we were recording the Relevant podcast I was just quiet and spent some time thinking about candy.

Am I a horrible Christian for not watching it? In my defense, I absolutely crushed the Bible series. I live tweeted that entire thing, make many funny and insightful comments. Gold like, “Did that angel look like Jet Li to anyone else?” I’ll probably even go see the Son of God movie version.

But I just couldn’t get into the creation debate.

Did you watch it or are you a horrible Christian like me?

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  1. says

    I am a horrible Christian like you. I knew about it because friends on both sides of the issue were mad posting about it. But, I had no desire to watch it. I’ll sit in the “bad Christian” part of Heaven with you.

  2. Eric says

    Horrible Christian here! But I did catch some youtube clips. I personally would send William Lane Craig up against anyone and not Ken Ham but I didn’t care enough to watch. I was reminded by something on the news this morning! I guess I must repent now!

    • Cynthia Wigginton says

      I did watch the debate and spent the entire time wishing it was William Lane Craig instead. Totally agree.

    • Robby Burt says

      Ken Ham earned a Bachelor of Applied Science, with an emphasis in Environmental Biology, at Queensland Institute of Technology and a diploma in Education from the University of Queensland.

        • says

          LOL, his answer to everything was “there’s a book”.

          I couldn’t have found a person to make Christianity look dumber if I went specifically looking for one. Then again, there’s always Pat Robertson, who blamed 9/11 on gays and lesbians, or Bill O’Reilly, who said “tide comes in, tide goes out” and claimed that science couldn’t explain that.

          • Samantha says

            One of our member’s of parliament here in the UK has said that the recent horrific flooding we’ve been suffering is a result of legalising gay marriage.

            BBC Radio 4 commented that maybe we should send some of our gay couples to drought stricken countries as a charitable act.

          • LJ says

            Pat Robertson actually believes in an old earth! I know, it seems beyond belief, given how many stupid things he’s said. But Bill O’Reilly takes the cake here, since I bet even Ken Ham could explain tides properly.

      • says

        One thing people have to understand about science degrees (and I have a Bachelor of Applied Science degree myself) is that they only certify that you’ve been given the necessary skills. They don’t guarantee that you will use them consistently, properly, or even ethically.

        One can learn the scientific method but refuse to internalize it.

    • AM says

      I was bad too…it’s just that Netflix pulled Dexter once before and I gotta get through it before they yank it again.

    • Seiji says

      Lol! That’s got to be the best description of the debate I’ve ever heard. Can’t say I’m interested or watched the debate, but I love that description of it.

  3. Jen M says

    I already know what I believe and I already know that neither man was going to change the other’s mind. So I used my three hours wisely and watched netflix. I know plenty of people who love a good debate. Me, I HATE confrontation.

  4. says

    I watched it! There was a live streaming event at my church, but one of our pastors is incredibly passionate about creation.

    I would recommend it. I thoroughly enjoyed it. If anything, it was more entertaining than the Super Bowl was this year. How often do we get to say that?!

  5. says

    I guess we’re both horrible Christians… I watched NCIS instead.

    Honestly, though, I didn’t have high hopes for the debate, knowing some of the things I’ve seen from Bill Nye and guessing (correctly, it would seem) some of the arguments Ken Ham would make. But ultimately, one of my Facebook friends made a poignant observation by way of a personal story. The world isn’t looking for a debate. They’re cold and scared, and just want someone to care about them and for them.

  6. Dawn says

    Oh I am horrible too. I have taken courses based on what makes creationism fact and rather enjoyed it but the idea of watching a debate about it was not appealing.

    I didnt see it as either one actually managing to convert or convince the other. If some nonbeliever ever comes to Christ because of this debatr awesome.

    • says

      Actually, creationism probably serves to drive people away from Christianity, rather than driving them toward it. I know it was a huge factor in my personal rejection of the religion.

      The arguments people make for creationism only make sense to people who already believe in it. They can’t see this, because (of course) they believe in it, and they are not inclined to listen to people who don’t.

      Christians are the only recruiters in the world who openly show disdain for the opinions of the people they’re trying to recruit.

  7. laura says

    Am I a horrible Christian knowing it was on reading tweets and not caring at all? maybe…just sounded too boring. Plus, it was Bill Nye debating, since I was a child of the 90s I am unsure if I just can’t take the science guy seriously or if I am heartbroken that the only thing that kept my interest in 4th grade science turned out to reject God? I dunno.

  8. Lindsey says

    Ha! I watched the entire debate but didn’t watch any of the Bible series. I wonder what that makes me? Can they just cancel each other out and call it a wash?

  9. Kyle says

    I watched most of it, and was for the most part disappointed in it. I didnt really learn anything from either side nor did I hear anything new. To me it felt kinda pointless and way over-hyped.

    • spacegal2003 says

      IS there anything new in this debate? I’ve been into this debate for close to a decade, and have pretty much tuned it out at this point, because I hate having the same argument over and over. Probably no longer wanting to engage makes me a bad Christian, but I feel that there are so many other things we could be discussing.

  10. says

    I didn’t watch it live. I listen to about 40 minutes of it before bed though last night while doing some writing. I heard Ken Ham’s intro. I thought that he did pretty good, though I still did not watch the whole thing.

  11. Jay Lamborn says

    I didn’t watch it. I read comments about it and made the decision that my wife, a teacher, probably doesn’t want to include Bill Nye in anymore science lessons, but otherwise have been pretty blah about it. My eldest son is atheist and he’s scratching his head why Bill Nye did this. Which is one of the reasons I didn’t watch — Bill Nye isn’t the right science guy for the debate (creation). The more I hear about Ken Ham, the more I wonder if he was the right guy, either.

    There’s a Bad Christian website. I guess we can all go hang out with those guys. And if THEY watched it, then I don’t know what we’re going to do …

    • cindy says

      Our church had it streaming but I was at work. My husband was watching it when I got home. There were some new arguments and some old. 30 minutes for each side was too long for me to pay attention. I worked on inventory and then passed out. Dr. WHITE with Alpha and Omega Ministries is a more spirited debater.

  12. Melanie says

    I will join the others in the time out corner. I didn’t watch it either. Knew about it because of friends (on both sides) posting and tweeting, but I had no interest in watching. *shrugs*

  13. says

    I am so out of it that I didn’t even know it was happening but I wouldn’t have watched it if I had known. But hey- no bad seats in heaven! all grace

  14. says

    Bad Christian here, too!
    I must admit to feeling a bit ashamed when Christians “debate” and just wind up looking stupid to the general public.
    More grace, less heat, I think might work!!?

  15. says

    I haven’t watched it yet but I will probably end up watching it later online. I’m super glad that Ken has the guts to stand up for the Truth but I am afraid we live in a world that has eyes but cannot see, ears but cannot hear…

  16. Kyle says

    Looking for a pat on the back or commiseration? It was very insightful and fun to watch, and I am a Christian. Does that make me bad, or stupid, or wrong?

    As for a debate, there is never going to be a concession on ones beliefs right away when it comes to creation. If there was an expectation of either guy just up and changing his beliefs, I think it would have been disappointing.

    I learned some cool things from Ham, and thought Nye came across more as a politician than a “scientist”. Love the liberal slander

    • David says

      I think you nailed it with your “belief” comment. It DOES come down to what one believes. That frames one’s understanding of everything, including origins and scientific inquiry.

  17. Reese says

    Don’t worry – you’re not a bad Christian for not watching. You’re only a bad Christian if you agreed with Bill Nye, like me.

    • AnotherJosh says

      Yep, it makes me sad reading some of the comments here, and knowing that there are plenty of people here – not to mention in my own (evangelical) church – who think I’m not saved (not just a “bad Christian”) for thinking that the earth is more than 6,000 years old and that there’s something to evolution (or as they say, evil-ution… *gag*) after all. Can I sit in the bad Christian corner with you?

      • Anna says

        I am glad to hear I am not the only Christian who believes in evolution. And I honestly don’t think God cares what we believe about how everything got the way it is now as long as we know it all came from him. In my mind Christianity and evolution are not mutually exclusive.

        • lee says

          Most Christians know that Creationism is wrong. It’s just that those who believe in it tend to be vocal – the silent majority and all that. Bill Nye actually points out that there are billions of people who believe in God and also believe in science.

  18. Chad says

    I read about it this morning, but didn’t attend (sorry to my fellow homeschooling parents who promoted it heavily). This was not a debate, but an existential football game, where all the “fans” came to the game with their minds made up which team they would root for. I don’t think anyone’s mind was changed by what was said. But it reinforced the fact that there are two world views at work in our country that could be reconciled to each other, but both sides refuse to validate each other. We are a split and irreconcilable nation. On a side note, as charismatic as Bill Nye is, anyone with his influence that recommends that Christian children should be taken from their parents so they can learn a world view that he deems valid is a very, very dangerous individual.

  19. AnotherJosh says

    I knew about it ahead of time, and still didn’t watch it. Ken Ham doesn’t bring much intellectual material to the debate, and if we wanted to have an in-house (Christian) debate on origins, there are plenty of Christian scientists – yes, contrary to what Ken Ham implies out of the other side of his mouth, you can be a follower of Jesus and still believe in evolution – like Francis Collins, Dennis Venema, etc. who would be in a much better position to show the flaws in Ken Ham’s method of interpreting scripture. I’d actually watch that, as opposed to this sort of debate that presents a false dichotomy by pitting the Bible (as represented by a Christian fundamentalist) against science (as represented by an agnostic).

  20. says

    I’ll take a seat next to Melanie in the Time Out Corner. I intended to watch it but forgot. I’m interested though, so I hope to watch it with my husband later tonight.

  21. says

    It’s not too late. Just tweet your best barbs at atheists and hashtag the debate. Then hit up some forums and get real snarky (like my comments). Make sure to tout as much of the Bible as you can because that makes those who don’t believe the bible want to start reading it. Many of us Christians have found this to be the best way to make disciples.

    • Dustin says

      Excuse me. But the best way to make disciples is to cover your vehicle with magnetic bible verses and anti(well, everything) bumper stickers with one of those “Free Take One” Bible Tract Holders screwed to the trunk. I mean, come on, that’s what makes me excited for Jesus.

      Now that’s what I call discipleship.

  22. Jenny says

    I love Jesus and I like Bill Nye (I mean c’mon, the guy wears a bow tie and swing dances, people!) so I watched a few minutes of the debate–just to stay in the loop. And from what I watched, both Hamm and Nye had good things to say–it wasn’t a debate, per se. It was two men from very different paradigms preaching to their respective choirs.

  23. Tim says

    I’m not trying to create any issues here (see what I did there?), but since I obviously love Jesus, I felt compelled to watch the entire 2 1/2 hours with my daughter…. We took turns dozing off during the “debate” … but so did the disciples during Jesus’ prayer meeting… so don’t judge me… even though I’m (subversively) judging everybody that didn’t watch it….

  24. Heather says

    Saw the emails and FB posts that it was taking place when the debate was already halfway over. Didn’t bother watching at that point. Although I did have to laugh at all of the FB posts from friends when it was over. Each side thought the other had done a horrible job!

  25. Savannah says

    I watched it, but I’m into that sort of thing. Creationism science has been an interest to me since high school. But I recognize that not everyone can stomach watching 2.5 hours of intellectual juking and jiving.

    In the end, you didn’t miss much. Nothing is ever accomplished in a debate such as this. Changing the opponents mind is never going to happen. It’s the 1 million plus people watching that might be a different story.

    That’s why things like this are important to the overall community, not to determining whether or not you’re going to heaven. ;)

  26. says

    I didn’t watch it, but I assume that they worked it all out for us and have a finite answer everyone can get on board with. I’ll patiently await the update to our local public school cirriculum.

  27. Nancy says

    I watched it. It was posted on the WA family policy website and Voddie Baucham’s FB posts. Also, lots of homeschool friends were sharing the info. I thought it was interesting. I didn’t know the evidences that show that the evolutionists dating systems have lots of inaccuracies & faults. I’ve never loved Science, but now I’m teaching it to my kids, so I was taking notes. I think that Ken Ham was very composed and gained some ground for some to contemplate that there are scientists with PhDs who have invented things, such as the MRI machine, etc., who also are creationists and work side by side with those who are not. And, its fine. It shot down Bill Nye’s plea for homeschool parents & Christians in general to not harm their children’s chance to contribute to the needs of society by hindering them with this worldview, that God created everything. I hope it piqued peoples curiosity in ways that will cause them to ask who Jesus really was? and What is the Bible?, Where did it come from? I am sad for Bill Nye, that he has no knowledge of the Lord. That was evident.

  28. Jenny says

    I watched it. I found Ken Ham to be very respectful and professional. Unfortunately, Bill Nye was rude and condescending to Ken Ham the whole time. He kept saying things like, “Ken Ham’s Flood” or “in the outside world” or “I am a reasonable man”, etc. He was acting like Ken Ham thought up the whole creation thing on his own and is leading a cult. He was very disrespectful to anyone of faith.

    Bill Nye also went on and on about voters and tax payers being sure not to let children learn creationism, because we won’t have any real scientists. What a load of BS!

  29. Dixie says

    Uh oh…Am I okay? I watched the debate. Now I’m wondering… Am I a bad Christian because I enjoy a debate? I relish the give-and-take of differing ideas…like our Founding Fathers did. Haha, oops! Was that a Founding Fathers Juke? Sorry! =)

    • says

      You’re a good Christian, but perhaps not faux edgy enough to be commenting here. I mean, really….where’s your cynicism? You’re supposed to be too cool to have watched, let alone enjoyed a debate with some Christian square like Ken Ham. At least that’s how it appears, having read the rest of the comments so far….

    • lee says

      Nope, you’re ok. I hear people saying that watching the debate gives credibility to people like Mr. Ham. But I think you have to at least try to understand where these people are coming from even if there’s no rational basis for their stance.

  30. Mike says

    I didn’t watch. Normally I’m into that sort of thing, but to me there are better reps of both worldviews than Bill & Ken. (Both of whom are far smarter than I). Fwiw, I’m an evangelical who takes the Bible very seriously. I also lean old earth.
    Is it at least a little ironic that I watched Big Bang Theory reruns instead?

  31. Alicia says

    Ahhh!! I am SO glad you posted this! We totally didn’t watch it – we were in the middle of a movie when I realized it was over and I felt like a HORRIBLE Christian. Ugh. But then I realized that was silly. Still had a guilt hangover though.

  32. lucas says

    When i was in college a professor once told me that unless you are willing to change your mind, there is no reason for debate. like the political “debates” if no one is willing to change their mind, you might as well talk to a wall and listen to someone call you an idiot for awhile.

    If i were Ken, i would have spent my time trying to get Bill to agree to some questions, do you know where matter came from? Is it possible that there is intelligent design? Do you believe in aliens? you know… the important stuff.

  33. Dacia says

    I watched most of the debate. I quit during the Q & A. It made me sad to see Bill Nye answer questions saying essentially, “I don’t know, but I want to know.” Yet, when Ken Ham responded with God as the answer…. it wasn’t viable in Nye’s opinion. The idea that we cannot understand everything is very hard for us to accept. It got us in trouble in The Garden too. Knowledge is power, right?

    • caitlin.brantley. says

      But there is a virtue to that perspective. If all that you fall back on is a book of religious teachings, it’s great that you believe said book, but you need external evidence (historical, personal, scientific, etc.) to validiate/debunk it.

  34. says

    I watched about ten minutes of it, got bored, lost most of my respect for Bill Nye, not because of his beliefs but because he basically said if you don’t believe in evolution you’re ignorant.

  35. says

    The only reason I knew about it was because my agnostic brother mentioned it on Facebook. I guess I’m in the same boat. I did however watch the Seahawks Rally live today. If I had to chose I would change nothing.

  36. Chris says

    Doesn’t it mean being a bad human being to not be willing to debate or at least hear the other side? I doubt either side thought they were gonna change anyone’s mind, but isn’t the point if it to be able to learn and grow?

  37. Sandy says

    Well I skipped watching the debate. Cause I was helping lead Middle School Youth Group. Hope that doesn’t make me a horrible Christian.

  38. Sandra says

    My husband and I watched the debate with our middle school age children. It was good for them to see and for us to discuss the views presented with them.

    Tonight we will be watching …
    Ken Ham & Georgia Purdom give Answers after the Debate
    Wednesday 2.5.2014 @ 8:00 PM (ET)

  39. micki says

    i have a weekly tuesday night obligation but even if i hadn’t, i probably wouldn’t have watched it. i’m not good at watching people arguing with each other. i’m not a conflict kind of person. i don’t think that just because there is a debate between a Christian and a non-Christian, that we are obligated to watch. just my .02. but hey i’m ok with people disagreeing with me too. :)

  40. says

    I guess I must suck. Because I watched it. I also don’t recognize it as a creation debate as much as a evolution debate.

    And Ham? Name dropping a bunch of scientists. #notimpressed.

  41. Brandy says

    I watched the debate, and sided with Bill Nye. I agree with what many have said: faith and science need not be mutually exclusive. I appreciated that both of them kind of acknowledged that, with Ham pointing out that there are some creationist scientists who do great work (the MRI scanner, etc.) and Nye pointing out that many deeply religious people accept the evidence of evolution. Both “sides” have a tendency to caricature the other side, so I thought those were good distinctions.

  42. Sus says

    I am also a horrible Christian. I watched Star Trek TNG. Debates accomplish very little except further convince people of their own opinions. And being very non-confrontational, I had very little interest.

  43. Charles B. says

    I watched it and encouraged others to watch it. But I’m intentional about engaging non-Christians in discussions that lead to serious talks later. So I’m talking with folks about the debate, whether they agree with my viewpoint or not. It wasn’t that great a debate, as these things go. But there were good take-aways for me to use. Hopefully, they’ll bear fruit.

    But I don’t mind if others didn’t watch it. As I said, it wasn’t that great. I’d recommend reading Al Mohler’s blog for a good synopsis.

  44. Sam says

    I’ve gotta say, I really don’t think that creationism belongs in science class. As someone above said, science is science and religion is religion. There are a lot of different creation theories. I’m totally okay with there being elective religious classes in school, but in the United States we have separation of Church and State as well as religious freedom. Including dogma in a science class isn’t right.

    That being said, I’m an atheist and I refused to watch this. As many have said on here, absolutely no one went into this with an open-mind. The people who watched this generally are people who are completely set in their beliefs and have no intention of meeting halfway. From what I know of Ken Ham, he’s an absolute loony and not someone that Christians really want speaking for them. I like Bill Nye, and like most people my age, I grew up watching him. But I don’t think he’s the right person for the face of science to be doing this debate. However, as far as I know, he only did it because Ken Ham has been pressuring him to for a long time.

    But I hate stuff like this, because it just gives EVERYONE on both sides such a bad name. Instead of opening our ears and hearts and really listening to what other people have to say (whether or not we believe them…but just giving them the chance to speak and actually understand their position) things like this just create divisiveness and hurt us even more. Even if someone believes something different than us, we’ve got to start respecting each other as human beings. And having debates like this where no one is really willing to change their minds is just making us angrier at one another than we already are.

    • lee says

      I’m a Christian and I agree with you on keeping science in science classes and religion in religion classes. Although you didn’t watch it, you’re right that both parties were ineffective. Mr. Ham was ineffective because, you know, he kept saying that the earth was 6,000 years old. Mr. Nye was ineffective because he just isn’t good at debates. He would go off on tangents and not respond when Mr. Ham said things like lions only ate plants before the flood.

  45. Lyn says

    I believe the “bad” part of Heaven is like the nosebleed seats, and I intend to load up on nachos and coke before I climb the steps.
    This is not Christ like at all, but I got my theory on evolution from South Park, where the mutant fish mated with the retarded monkeys…..
    I tend to not go where a million Christians are jumping on a bandwagon. Was burned many years ago by the “PTL Club” remember Jim and Tammy Faye? God knows, I believe in him, and if the mutant fish and retarded monkeys did marry, He wanted them to, cause He can.

  46. Koko says

    Absolutely watched it!

    Bill Nye was our educational entertainment as kids, & Ken Ham was a celebrity at my Christian school…& university.

    I also made my kids watch it. Unfortunately, what my 6th grader took from the debate was that one could believe in God creating the world -OR- evolution as the vehicle of creation.

    As a Christian who believes God used evolution to create life, I found her conclusion that one must choose between science and faith rather disturbing.

  47. CalLadyQED says

    My church had a thing for it, but I purposely did not attend. Debates are pointless if the audience is not actually open to both sides. That and I don’t consider listening to Ken Ham a good use of my time. My expectation for attending the live streaming at my church was that I would be whatever the opposite of edified is. So I stayed home.

  48. Jenn says

    I watched it. It was great, Ken Ham shared the gospel a few times! Ken presented well organized and well sourced complete arguments. Bill Nye was condescending and unprepared and jumped from topic to topic in a poorly organized, unsupported fashion. I’m grateful for Ken’s faithfulness to Christ and the gospel!

    • Koko says

      Ken Ham sharing the gospel was completely irrelevant to the question they were supposed to be debating, not to mention insulting by making the broad assumption that anyone who disagrees with YEC is not Christian.

      At that point, my kids were giving me the side-eye because I was shouting at the screen, “What does John 3:16 have to do with YEC?”

  49. says

    I might be a better Christian because I watched at least 10 minutes of it. Before I got bored and turned it off. I wish I would have seen your tweets through the Bible series.

  50. Kelli says

    Wouldn’t it be better if the church focused less on debates and more on serving Jesus?

    :::Sorry, I’m fairly new to the site and I’m trying out Jesus juking ;-) :::

    Anyway, I didn’t watch the debate. I’m a bad Christian from a long way back, I even didn’t watch the History Channel Bible series. I’m surprised I haven’t yet been kicked out of my church. ;-)

    I had no interest in seeing two sides try to score points. I don’t think an intellectual debate is bad, and Christians shouldn’t just keep silent about what we believe. However, I don’t think this particular debate was very helpful.

  51. says

    This Christian makes a point of never going down those cul-de-sacs.

    There’s no need to.

    We just tell folks about the great love that God has for them in Christ Jesus, that He forgives them all their sins and that He will one day raise them from the dead to spend eternity with Himself.

    And every once in a while (by God’s grace)…someone believes it.

  52. says

    Everybody’s over here like “Are you going to watch? Ham is going to rock this debate!” and I’m all like “But I’m halfway through a marathon of the Office on Netflix and I need to know if Jim and Pam are going to get together or not!”

    I’m horrible.

    PS…thinking about candy sounds good too.

    • spacegal2003 says

      There are also atheists who don’t believe in the Big Bang Theory because it essentially supposes something came from nothing, which is a creationist argument.

  53. says

    Did you just Jesus Juke the Creation vs Evolution debate? Well, Jesus would have watched it…. so no pressure there.

    This discussion is far more important than “The Bible” TV series, or anything on PTL… It’s a discussion of the answer to the single question, as Bill Nye said, we all have from when we are little children, “Where did I come from?”

    Both men were very calm and respectful to each other (I have read comments of some Christians that claim Nye was condescending. He was not.) Ken Ham seemed to be focussed on on redefining terminology so that it would fit better in his World View. Although his claim that some terminology has been “hijacked” by secular/atheist scientists seemed reasonable, stating the claim that a scientist who is a creationist is not allowed a seat at the science table. The argument seemed to come down to this (using Ken Ham’s own terminology), can we use observable science to predict historical science since historical science cannot be “proven” definitively.

    Ham seemed to say it cannot; that since we can’t observe the creation account what we must believe about creation is the “science” in the sacred text as interpreted through reading the Bible–regardless of how it may conflict with what we can observe in science today.

    Nye seemed to say we can and must; that since we can’t observe the creation account we must look to what we can observe today to predict future events and interpret past events. He seemed to say that if there is “science” in biblical stories that conflict with observable science then what we read must be something other than “science” as told in those stories.

    They both had solid points to consider but each spent most of the time making those points rather than directly answering each other’s questions. (Although Nye did respond more than once with “I don’t know” and Ham responded more than once with “There is already a book that explains that.” But, both responses are not “answers.”)

    I say watch it. But, clearly, I’m a nerd. With a beard. Like Jesus. Who was probably a bearded nerd, too. So, if you want to be more like Jesus, you should probably watch it.

    • says

      “Although his claim that some terminology has been “hijacked” by secular/atheist scientists seemed reasonable, stating the claim that a scientist who is a creationist is not allowed a seat at the science table”

      That’s like saying that science has been hijacked by atheists because Zeus followers aren’t allowed a seat at the electromagnetism science table. Creationism is a completely invalid theory, so much so that it’s not really a scientific theory at all.

      A scientific theory requires a mechanism, at a bare minimum. Darwin knew there was evolution, but did not dare publish it as a theory until he came up with a mechanism for it: natural selection. With no mechanism, there is no scientific theory because a scientific theory must be testable, and testing requires an ability to generate specific predictions, both positive and negative (in other words, the mechanism must be defined sufficiently that you can predict what will and also what will not happen).

      Any theory which basically boils down to ” can do anything it pleases” is not a valid scientific theory, because it is useless: it does not allow specific testable predictions.

      The reason creationists are not “allowed a seat at the science table” is quite simple: creationism is a not a kind of science. It is a rejection of the scientific method itself, at its most fundamental level.

  54. David Henderson says

    I did watch it and thought it was very good. I do think that a debate between an OLD EARTH THEORIST (who is a believer) and Bill Nye would be interesting.

  55. Bob says

    I avoided it like the plague. I feel like the intension was to convince people of opposite view points to change their mind. The reality is: no one ever changed their mind by being out in the defensive. Result: a lot of pissed off people. As someone who does not want to piss anyone off nor be pissed off myself I feel like I made the right call.

  56. says

    I’m with you Jon. Whole thing seemed to be pretty much full of sound and fury signifying nothing. Jesus focused on loving God and others, feeding the sick, helping the poor, seeking justice for the marginalized. Probably a good idea for us to focus our energy on the same things

  57. Steve says

    I didn’t know about the debate, but if I had, I don’t think I would have watched it. I liked Bill Nye as a kid, and don’t like seeing him get involved in stuff like this. As a popular host of kids’ TV shows, a lot of kids trust his opinion simply because it’s him saying it.

    I believed in evolution until I got saved, and decided it just wasn’t an important enough issue to cling to. I decided to trust what the Lord says about it, rather than what man says. Science is ever-changing– pluto is no longer a planet, atoms are no longer like mini solar systems, etc. Science is just a set of theories we use to explain how stuff works. And when the model doesn’t work anymore, we adjust it. If you’ve ever seen the Woody Allen movie, Sleepers, you’ve got to love the part where the guy wakes up in the future, and his doctor tells him to have a cigarette and a steak because science has proven that they’re extremely healthy.

    Our God, Yahweh, doesn’t change.

  58. Blake McKinney says

    A debate between Nye’s position and Ham’s position is kindof like debating whether Jon Acuff is 3 feet tall or 8 feet tall. There are a lot of other options between “God doesn’t exist and the universe happened by chance evolution” and “modern science is all wrong and God made the world 6000 years ago.” I just hate that Ham’s position is viewed by many as THE Christian position on the matter, making folks think that if they take science seriously they can’t be good Christians.

  59. lee says

    I think a better debate would be between a believer who accepts science and Mr. Ham, or Mr. Nye. This was not a debate at all, but two separate presentations that were frankly very boring.

    For a good example of why this was not a legit debate, check out these questions from Creationists, especially #5 and 22. And then place a pillow on your desk before you bang your head against it:

  60. Lauri says

    I watched Pretty Little Liars instead, so I’m pretty sure I can sit in the bad Christian section of heaven for that alone.
    I live within the area of the Creation museum. I refuse to go there. I really don’t believe that the first seven days had to be 24 hour periods of time, since time hadn’t actually been created until halfway through the week or that dinosaurs never existed. Because of that I didn’t want to give either side my attention.

  61. pjillyb says

    Yes, I watched it, but in my defense, my husband made me. He’s an aerospace enginerd and these things are required of me on a regular basis. And in return, I make him watch Downton Abbey. Often.

  62. says

    It was a publicity stunt of the first order, the NEW COKE scam of the new milennium. Yet more validation that not having network tv in my home was a good call all those years ago when I was too cheap to buy an antenna to be able to watch digital.

  63. Tommy says

    I may be on my own in this, but it kind of bothers me a vast majority of people on here (and possibly even Jon) seem almost proud of the fact they didn’t watch the debate. Shouldn’t we support any venture which sets out to defend Christianity? Yes, I know debates are less likely to win converts than personal communication, but they do raise good questions that can lead to better discussions. I wonder if this was a pro-life vs. pro-choice debate if more people would have tuned in.

    • spinetingler says

      “Shouldn’t we support any venture which sets out to defend Christianity? ”

      Not if the “defense” does more actual harm to the case for Christianity, which it does almost anytime Ken Ham opens his mouth.

  64. Lisa says

    Am ashamed to say watched almost all of it until it cut me off. But I’m not gonna say I didn’t actually fall asleep a couple times during what I watched! lol (Snoozer)

  65. says

    Okay. May I just say that I didn’t even know there was a debate between Bill Nye Ham. Didn’t even hear about it! I might also add, though, that I didn’t even know that Peyton Manning was playing in the Superbowl until I saw it on Facebook while watching the game. SADNESS! This is the life of a teacher who is definitely out of touch with reality.

    Am I a horrible Christian? Oh, well. If it puts me on the same status as Jon Acuff, then I’M IN!

  66. says

    I didn’t watch it. I love Bill Nye the Science Guy! He’s my Childhood. I didn’t want all of those precious science classes where the TV cart was rolled into the room with promises of that amazing opening song and learning about Tectonic Plates marred. Although I did hear that it was a pretty civil, but honestly I could care less …. whoops.

  67. Rob says

    I didn’t watch it, and I pretty much ignored all of the posts of facebook and in the news about it.

    To me, there’s pretty much no way that this event could have been anything but divisive. Last I checked, Genesis 1 didn’t give the exact formula for how God created the world, so who am I to say that nothing in evolution is true?

    I believe Augustine said this: “In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty.” Am I a bad Christian for saying this one is a non-essential?

    • says

      That depends on what you mean by “essential”. If the literal story of Adam and Eve and the doctrine of Original Sin is really important to you, then creationism is essential to your belief system. If not, then you don’t need Adam and Eve to be real people, and you can accept evolution.

  68. Jeff says

    I didn’t watch it live. I did watch some of the podcast, but it’s really a non issue for me. I believe God created the heavens and the earth. Whether it was 6 24 hour days or it took longer really is irrelevant. I have also done some research into evolution and found it to have some rather massive gaps. It some ways it requires more blind faith to believe in evolution than creation. Bill Nye point of view seems to be we cannot let these Christian beliefs into the realm of science because they will destroy the science in favor of superstitions. The history of science tells us the complete opposite. The Christian belief in the truth helps the scientist from faking results in order to prove their pet theory. It is the Christina that is best suited to look at results critically instead of a biased mind.

    • spinetingler says

      “The Christian belief in the truth helps the scientist from faking results in order to prove their pet theory.”

      Er, wait, you’re claiming truth as an exclusively Christian attribute?

      So no one told the truth before about 2000 years ago?

  69. caitlin.brantley. says

    I personally think the Creation began with the Big Bang (as described with “let there be light”), and followed the exact order of the events described therein. The “days” could have been actual days, or they could have been longer time periods (remember the seventy weeks of Israel’s captivity?). God could have created either way. Also, the Bible states man and land animals have a common source (which, as it states, was the ground), and evolutionists, contrary to popular Christian belief, believe man and monkey share a common ancestor— NOT that monkey is man’s anscestor. (They may have believed that at one pint, but all the ones I’ve heard said that it was a common ancestor.) I guess that the main debate is God’s Orders vs. Random Events Absent of Divine Direction.


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